An Air of Celebration in Brussels: Politicians Defeat the People (2)

From the desk of Elaib Harvey on Wed, 2007-06-27 10:13

One of the truisms of war, politics and other contested areas of life, is that it always serves you well to look at what the other side are saying or doing. This is particularly apposite when they the other side are replete with confidence. To that end I bring you a collection of quotes from yesterday’s European parliamentary Constitutional Affairs Committee.

All the Constitution is there! Nothing is missing!
Jean-Louis Bourlanges (Liberal, France)

We kept the substance of the Constitution
Jo Leinen MEP, Committee President (Socialist, Germany)

We have the same thing but we regressed for transparency and clearness
Enrico Baron Crespo MEP (Socialist, Spain)

It's incredible to see all what they slipped under the carpet!
Gérard Onesta MEP (Green, France)

Formally, it's not a constitution but it's a big step to the constitution
Carlos Carnero MEP (Socialist, Spain)

Our political union finally has a Constitution
Johannes Voggenhuber MEP (Green, Austria)

Can we have a referendum please?

Response # 2

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Mon, 2007-07-09 02:32.

I'm not quite sure why you appear to be taking all your frustrations out on me.However,let me attempt to briefly answer all your key points,starting in reverse order:

Q Why is it not possible to have a democratic EU organization?

A I don't know,perhaps it is.I just don't wish to be apart of it.

Statement: I don't think the EU is completely useless.

Response: Fine.But I do.It's my opinion,I'm entitled to it,and I'm sticking with

it,if that's ok with you.

 

Statement: In England,the most urgent need is to get rid of the BBC

Response: After George Galloway,I'd agree with that.

 

Statement: I think the western world will need a revolution to change things!

Response: Depending upon your definition of the term 'revolution', I'd agree

with that too.

 

Statement: I agree that we have many elements of democracy in the West,

especially in the US,but on the whole our democracies don't work.

 

Response: I'm glad to hear that you agree with me on this one too.

 

Statement: The Mexican immigrants should not have been allowed to come in 

the first place.

 

Response: A little tricky this one.Seeing that a) I'm not an American citizen

and b) we have our own immigration issues in Britain to contend with.Nevertheless,if you'd care to check out one of my previous postings in which I said something to the effect...Are there any patriotic Americans out there who do not wish liberals to effectively re negotiate the treaty of Hidalgo ? I then went on to offer them the following link.

http://www.vdare.com/awall/070516_memo.htm

 

Title: Memo From Mexico, by Allan Wall.

 

Does that sound like someone who is a million miles away from your own position on this issue?

 

As for all  questions and statements prior to this point,let's just say I'll stick with my original answers and leave it at that shall we?

 

 

 

To: Armor

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Sun, 2007-07-08 23:20.

Read the article again and you will see that the author is contrasting the method and the manner in which the US (openly) deliberated on their so-called non-amnesty-bill,and how the EU dealt (secretively and fraudulently) with its problem with promised referendums on the proposed new European constitution.The article clearly shows that on THIS occasion at least,American democracy DID work,while the total ABSENCE of a democratic proccess within the EU model meant that it DID NOT work,because it COULD NOT work,due to the absence thereof.

 

I agree with you that the democratic process isn't perfect in either Britain or  the US (how could it be?),but that isn't the same thing as saying that democracy doesn't exist at all in either country.As far as British politics is concerned,I tend to agree with the British journalist and political commentator Peter Hitchens when he says that Tories,Labour and LibDems are now so much of a muchness that (small c )conservatives like myself need a new party to vote for.A party which would replace our useless Tories.Unless and until this happens,British democracy can not and will not "work better",either inside or outside the equally useless and totally undemocratic EU.The question of Britain's continued membership of the EU,democratic or otherwise, is a completely separate issue which I have covered at great length elsewhere on this blogsite.

Democracy has stopped working

Submitted by Armor on Mon, 2007-07-09 01:03.

Atlanticist911 said: " Read the article again and you will see that the author is contrasting the method and the manner in which the US (openly) deliberated on their so-called non-amnesty-bill, and how the EU dealt (secretively and fraudulently) with its problem with promised referendums on the proposed new European constitution. "

All right! here is what John O'Sullivan writes:
"All the crack regiments of the establishment - the White House, congressional leaders in both Houses, the establishment media from the New York Times to the South Succotash Independent, the "mainstream churches," the major charitable foundations, Corporate America, and Big Labour itself - were solidly in favour of the not-an-amnesty bill."

--> Don't tell me this is a democratic situation ! Most people are against immigration, and most institutions are in favor of immigration.

" The article clearly shows that on THIS occasion at least, American democracy DID work "

I'm glad of this victory, but this is not enough. The Mexican immigrants should not have been allowed to come in the first place. We are not sure they will be sent back home. More of them are still coming.

" the democratic process isn't perfect in either Britain or the US (how could it be?) "

That is an understatement. I agree that we have many elements of democracy in the West, especially in the US, but on the whole our democracies do not work. The population is being replaced authoritatively. I can not imagine anything worse, and it is enough to say that we have bogus democracies.

" (small c )conservatives like myself need a new party to vote for "

I think the western world will need a revolution to change things ! In England, the most urgent need is to get rid of the BBC.

" the equally useless and totally undemocratic EU "

I don't like the current evolution of the European project, and that is why I voted against the EU treaty in 2005, but I don't think the EU is completely useless. I think you should try to identify where the lack of democracy comes from. I don't think it comes from the EU civil servants. Who gave its impulse to the new EU ideology? Does it not come only from the European heads of states? Why is it not possible to have a democratic EU organization?

@ Yizhak : EU MUST LEARN FROM AMERICA

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Sun, 2007-07-08 16:16.

America's open debate over immigration demonstrates that the US is a democracy by any standard.The EU's false prospectus,secret deliberations,closed circle of decision-makers,and contempt for the voters make equally clear that "Europe" is anything but a democracy.If it turns out to be merely a ramshakle,bureaucratic,multi-national empire like the Hapsburg one,we'll be lucky.

Visit: http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/20912

 

Would you care to argue this one,Yizhak?  

no democracy in Britain

Submitted by Armor on Sun, 2007-07-08 21:05.

Atlanticist911 said: " America's open debate over immigration demonstrates that the US is a democracy by any standard. "

American democracy does not work, or mass immigration from the third-world would not have been allowed to continue for 40 years, even though the American people had never given its agreement. The American mass media now continue their brainwashing in favor of more immigration. People who express common sense on this issue are still being intimidated by the far-left minority. This is the same as in Europe. It is certainly not democracy !

" The EU's false prospectus, secret deliberations, closed circle of decision-makers, and contempt for the voters make equally clear that "Europe" is anything but a democracy. "

I think the EU is what European governments make it to be. It isn't democratic because member countries like France, Britain and so on, do not have governments representing people's views. The EU has a bureaucracy of its own, and it may be even more crazy than what you find in the member states, as it is one level higher. But in the end, I think the EU bureaucracy and the EU parliament have little power. I think decisions are mainly taken by the governments.

Now, I would like you to explain how the EU is any worse than Britain. The policiy of mass immigration shows that Britain is not run according to the rules of democracy. The Tory, Labour, and LibDem politicians all seem in favor of replacing Europeans with third-worlders. I think they are puppet politicians with little opinion of their own. They are just obeying the far-left ideology forced on us by the media and a number of institutions. They are not doing their job of representing the people.

What makes you think that British democracy will start working better when Britain gets out of the EU ?

Stuff EU !

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Wed, 2007-07-04 20:52.

Excerpted from an article published in THE SUN newspaper,Wednesday,July 4,2004.

 

Meanwhile,an EU leader urged Mr Brown to COVER UP the surrender of sovereignty from British voters.

 

Luxemburg Premier Jean-Claude Juncker said there should be NO public debate in the U.K.

 

He said: "Britain is different.Of course,there will be transfers of sovereignty,but would it be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?".

Keywords: Cover Up; NO public debate; Surrender of sovereignty; Britain; 4th Of July.

Elisa's Alter Ego

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2007-07-03 01:14.

Further to that Telegraph article about Elisa Correr MEP.(visit:www.telegraph.co.uk/ then enter ELISA CORRER into the search box to view original article).

 

Let's face it,Elisa's cleavage,blonde hair and pouting lips etc., isn't going to go down too well in certain quarters of the EUSSR, now is it?(I mean,what about all those  feisty young European women who currently choose to dress up like cloth bats?).Perhaps our EU Commisars need to re think this one.Maybe they should consider creating what one might call Elisa's 'Alter Ego'.They might,for example,consider calling her Salmonella Rushdie,MEP.(Selima,for short).She could be presented as Eurabia's first multi-culti heroine.The alter-cartoon could be called,"The Scarlet Pumpernickel".Indeed,the possibilities are endless.

In fact,the more I think about it,the more I'm convinced that this is a character whose time has come.    

Da-da-da-da,da-da-da-da,da-da-da-da,da-da-da-da,BATWOMAN!!!

Neologism

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Mon, 2007-07-02 10:51.

"most important multi-national organ in the world"

 

Perhaps all future statements of this nature, emanating from the EUSSR, should be known, henceforth, as "Priapisms"

EUSSR vs. The Great Satan

Submitted by Amsterdamsky on Mon, 2007-07-02 07:25.

Atlanticist  "A version of the diary sent to Dutch schools describes the European Parliament as the "most important multi-national organ in the world"."

 

And the US is the Great Satan.  We all know where this is going.  EUSSR!!!!

From Used Car Salesman to Heroine Pusher

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Mon, 2007-07-02 00:15.

Excerpted from today's SUNDAY TELEGRAPH:

 

Brussels woos young hearts and minds with free diaries,trips,and a superheroine MEP

 

The European Union is spending £3.8bn a year on "propaganda" to win over its sceptical citizens...

The Europa Diary,a gift from the EU to schoolchildren,is one example...The diary has been sent to 1.2 million pupils in more than 9.000 schools across Europe.Its calendar includes pages that describe the European Parliament as "the people's voice" and claims that the EU has "improved the quality of people's everyday lives".

A version of the diary sent to Dutch schools describes the European Parliament as the "most important multi-national organ in the world".

The European Parliament has also funded a cartoon called OPERATION RED DRAGON,featuring a daring,fictitious MEP, Elisa Correr,who becomes "embroiled in a risky and fascinating adventure while in pursuit of her parliamentary activities".

She dodges assassins,hunts down a general who broke an arms embargo,and still has time to debate copyright law in Brussels.

End Quote.

 

 

More French "Hanky-Panky"

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Sun, 2007-07-01 23:49.

In 1919 Maurice Hankey said,"I find [the French] full of intrigue and chicanery of all kinds,without any idea of playing the game",and it would appear that not much has changed in the intervening years,as can be witnessed by an article in today's SUNDAY TELEGRAPH:

 

New treaty is just 'constitution in disguise' -d'Estang.

 

Mr d'Estang insisted that "all the earlier proposals will be in the new text,but will be hidden and disguised in some way".

 

Keywords:Intrigue;chicanery; hidden;disguised;Hankey;Hanky-Panky;the French.

Car Spotter

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Sun, 2007-07-01 10:44.

Biased? Of course it's biased. A bias which is firmly in the direction of the independent nation state.(First and foremost,my own).

Go Trabbie's Go !

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Sat, 2007-06-30 19:31.

Further notice  to all Euro-integrationists out there:

 

To continue with the used car salesman analogy...since when has there been a rule which says that a person who is not in the market for a used car is obliged to provide a pestering used car salesman with a reason why he does not wish to purchase said saleman's clapped out banger? (But I will).

 

Short answer: Why should I trade in my beautiful Rolls-Royce for  a Trabant Nova 101?

 

Long answer: Read the book by Peter Hitchens,"The Abolition of Britain",then get back to me. 

And here's a clue:

"I live in a country which has a different history and different traditions and different interests than continental Europe...".

Quote: Peter Hitchens.

Car hunter

Submitted by Schaveiger on Sun, 2007-07-01 09:54.

Your comparison between a pestering Trabant and a R-R is somewhat biased. The first are hardly to find this time and the second is the only one left that can be qualified as (more or less) pure British.
I suppose that's one of the points in Hitchen's book.
As to his quote, I fully agree and so does the whole continent.

Car Salesmen

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Sat, 2007-06-30 14:18.

Notice to all Euro-integrationists out there:

 

You are like the proverbial car salesman who refuses to give up on the sale  even when the prospective customer says,"No thanks,I'm not interested".Look,I don't care if you offer to change the colour,supe up the engine or drop the price,I just don't WANT the damned thing.Got it?

EU Happy Happy and Fuck France!

Submitted by Amsterdamsky on Fri, 2007-06-29 20:54.

"why don't you come up with suggestions in which, in your mind,  everybody would find his happiness ?. "

 

Follow the original Benulux origins of the EU and make it a free trade zone NOT a political monstrosity that France has made it become.  Fuck France! We are not tools for their aspirations for greatness just because they think they can draw on their colonies and bring in 20 million african voters to push the rest of us around.  If the americans ever dare give the Dutch the launch codes to the nukes stationed here France should be very, very worried.

EU happy etc...

Submitted by Schaveiger on Sat, 2007-06-30 13:06.

The Benelux treaty was merely commercial.
The Coal and Steel treaty was purely commercial.
In fact what you're claiming is a pure economic union ignoring the current globalisation not only on commercial but also on political issues.
In fact you want to go back to where Europe did'nt exist on the international political scene.
I don't know why France only is your scapegoat, others did'nt do better neither. The colonies of the former British Empire (Commonwealth) are still politically present, at least inside the UK.

A referendum for what ?

Submitted by Schaveiger on Fri, 2007-06-29 17:43.

Sorry guys but I don't quite understand why you have such a fierce opposition to a constitution (or treaty - whatever) which is currently MANDATORY to have this union working.

Instead of only pouring out critics all over, why don't you come up with suggestions in which, in your mind,  everybody would find his happiness ?. 

alternative

Submitted by markpetens on Fri, 2007-06-29 21:12.

But there is an alternative, like EFTA. Just get the EU back to its original roots.

Les "Crock" Monsieurs **

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Wed, 2007-06-27 23:21.

@ Amsterdamsky

 

Me,start a war with France? We've never stopped being at war with them over the centuries - it's been an on and off,hate & hate affair.Come to think of it, I believe it was the great military Frenchman,Marshal Foch who summed  up the situation  best (although he certainly didn't realise it at the time),when he said:

"This isn't a peace,it is an armistice...".

 

And,as history relates it,he was proven correct.

 

[ ** Sorry,but it was a choice between this and the decidedly less fraternal phrase, "Foch 'em! "].

 

J' Accuse!

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Wed, 2007-06-27 12:30.

All the Constitution is there! Nothing is missing!

Jean-Louis Bourlanges (Liberal,France).

 

No more wars for me at any price! Except against the French.If there's ever a war with them I'll go like a shot!

Edmund  Blunden, war poet