1,600 Years Ago: Barbarian Invasion

From the desk of Luc Van Braekel on Sun, 2006-12-31 13:49

1,600 years ago today, on December 31, 406, the Vandals invaded France. Europe was going through a minor ice age. The Rhine had frozen over. Several Germanic tribes, the Vandals, Suebians, Alamannians, Alans and Burgundians, fleeing the Huns, crossed the river near Mainz and invaded Gaul.

Invasions_of_the_Roman_Empi.gif

Three years later, in 409, the Vandals, Suebians and Alans crossed the Pyrenees. The Suebians and a group of the Vandals (the Asdings) settled in Galicia. The Alans and the rest of the Vandals (the Silings) moved on and settled in the south of Spain – a region which came to be called after them: Vandalucia (later renamed al-Andalus by the Arabs).

The Vandals were Christians, though they belonged to the Arian sect which denies the divinity of Christ. In 429 an army of 80,000 Vandals crossed the Strait of Gibraltar and invaded North Africa. Ten years later they conquered Carthage. Another 16 years later, in 455, they crossed the Mediterranean and attacked Rome from the sea. They sacked Rome in an orgy of violence that lasted two weeks and earned their reputation as “vandals.”

By 462 the Vandals ruled North Africa, the Balearic Islands, Corsica, Sardinia and Sicily. In 468 they defeated a Byzantine (Eastern Roman) fleet, but from 477 onwards their power began to wane. In 534 they surrendered to the Byzantines and North Africa returned to the Roman Empire until 648, when it was overrun by the Arabs. Some historians say that Islam was easily accepted by the Vandals because their Christian Arianism was compatible with it.

1,600 years ago today the Vandals invaded France. Within a generation they had sacked Rome. Where will Europe be 1,600 years from the other dates in this story: 2009, 2029, 2055, 2062, 2068…?

Controllable islamofascism is a myth

Submitted by Invite_Jesus on Fri, 2007-01-05 22:23.

I like this take on the issue: "There will be no islamic secularism. The secularists are likely to be
islamists. They seem to have little problem with islam. Whether it is
because they are deluded or because they feel it is so inferior to them
and thereby controllable. ." but the ending saying "I dont know" left it doubtful there!

No doubt islamofascism is uncontrollable.  See India, Cacausus and Serbia!  Regime change should  have been in 'fakistan'  not iraq!!

Barbaric invasion and stranglehold persists

Submitted by Invite_Jesus on Fri, 2007-01-05 22:17.

Hi Friends, I was away on travel!  Talking of invasion, and domination, let me refer you to the islamofascist rule over India by violent
millennium long domination over the indigent culture of India as at

http://poornimapeace.sulekha.com/blog/post/2007/01/mogul-emperor-has-no-...

angry protests favoring the islamists on anti-merit action of the Govt at
http://maddss123.sulekha.com/blog/post/2006/12/justice-rajander-sachar-a...

@Flanders Fields...

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Fri, 2007-01-05 08:20.

I agree that there is a marked difference between atheism and agnosticism and any promotion of atheistic values by the State is no different than if it asserted religious values.

However, true secularism is agnostic and does not deny religion e.g. Baathist Iraq and Kemalist Turkey, it is merely the separation of church and state.

I believe Western governments are, in the main, agnostic and secular, however, there are athestic elements which attack organized religion, even supporting minority religious rights at the expense of those of the Christian majority. Similarly, there are feminists who want formal equality (i.e. equal pay) with men, and there are feminists who are lesbians and want to punish men for historical wrongs, again supporting minority males even if the latter are more chauvinistic than the majority.

Relevant as hell!

Submitted by Flanders Fields on Tue, 2007-01-02 21:00.

Europe is compatible with Islam because there is no religion.  It has been bred out of the national character of Europe by those leftists who have replaced it with snobbish anti-Christian secularism.  The secularist religion considers itself compatible with islam because they consider themselves in control, and islam as another religion that will succumb to secular thought.  They are willing to trade their people without thought that they are trading themselves, too.

 

I doubt that a generation of time will be unnecessary for Brussels to be immersed in sharia law.  It is already beginning to happen.  It is being implemented along with UN law and directives and provisions against "hate speech".

Come again...

Submitted by Bob Doney on Wed, 2007-01-03 15:08.

"The secularist religion considers itself compatible with islam because they consider themselves in control, and islam as another religion that will succumb to secular thought."

Eh? Secularism isn't a religion. It isn't compatible with Islam. I don't think you'll find that the Koran absorbs many secularist ideas in the way that it absorbs Christian and Judaist ones.

Leftism and Islam

Submitted by Flanders Fields on Wed, 2007-01-03 18:34.

Bob, secularism is not recognized as a religion by those of us accustomed to identifying religion with churches, but it is. It's practitioners are as fervant as many of the evangelizing Protestant preachers. It is primarily of leftist following and it's advocates are after converts. They have been too successful. Their primary gain is in justifying individual abandonment of ones own religion. Many have accepted secularism in the form of abandoning even a search for a personal relationship with God and have become secularist without being aware that they have chosen that religion. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups

I realize that it is not compatible with islam. So do the Islamists, but they will be happy to use the secularists to achieve what they are after. They, too, have been overly successful in using the secularists and leftists. They are each parasites in a symbiotic relationship that is dangerous to the rest of us.

Secularism

Submitted by Bob Doney on Wed, 2007-01-03 21:30.

"secularism is not recognized as a religion by those of us accustomed to identifying religion with churches, but it is."

This is completely meaningless on any mainstream definition of secularism. Religion is to do with man's relationship with (a) god. Secularism says that such relationships have no place in public affairs, that the state should be blind to its citizens' religion or lack of it. It is perfectly possible to be Christian/secularist, Buddhist/secularist, Hindu/secularist or atheist/secularist. But it would have to be a pretty rubbery interpretation of Muhammed's teaching to allow for Islamic secularism.

Yes, many "have abandoned even a search for a personal relationship with God", but that is not a necessary or sufficient condition for them to be secularists.

Secular islam

Submitted by Flanders Fields on Thu, 2007-01-04 19:31.

Bob, the secularism I refer to is not the same as you reference. Many religious people agree that the state should be a civil institution and conduct its affairs without regard to religion, except in a ceremonial or historical sense, and should otherwise stay out of the issue. That is necessary to some degree for the orderly conduct of government.

I refer to those who are leftist in their agenda and who are intent in involving government and business in eradicating societies longstanding deference to the established religions of its people. I don't think you can truthfully deny that you see no campaign underway to use government and business and the cultural media to suppress peoples celebrations and expressions of their religious faith. The left wants people to rely only on the state and to abandon their faith in their God. They are attempting to establish a culture where religion is looked upon in the same sense as they have accomplished with smokers. They want it marginalized in society and placed in a position of derision. They want the next generation to grow up free of religious influence and faith.

What you describe is seperation of church and state, which is proper to a great extent. I don't thing complete seperation is desireable, but I don't think the government has the slightest business pushing a religion of any type. The trend is for them to push the secularist beliefs, if you prefer to call them that. They are certainly a religion by some standards though not all, but secularism is certainly pushed with the same zeal to deny other religions their traditionally accepted roles in society.

There will be no islamic secularism. The secularists are likely to be islamists. They seem to have little problem with islam. Whether it is because they are deluded or because they feel it is so inferior to them and thereby controllable, I don't know. I do know they are making the world more dangerous for all of us.

Vandals

Submitted by Bob Doney on Sun, 2006-12-31 23:02.

Oh, I thought it was to help us plan our holidays. Some of the Vandals seem to have taken the scenic route to Ibiza...

Happy New Year to you all!

?

Submitted by Kapitein Andre on Sun, 2006-12-31 21:49.

I'm afraid that I fail to understand the relevance of this article to contemporary Europe, unless of course, Mr. Van Braekel is comparing yesterday's Vandals and today's Muslims.