Danish Imams Propose to End Cartoon Dispute

From the desk of Hjörtur J. Guðmundsson on Sun, 2006-01-22 21:31

Update (7 February 2006): The Cartoon Hoax

The Danish imams, who protested the publication of 12 Muhammad cartoons [see them all below] in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten last September, have announced that they want to end the dispute. For four months the imams and their radical Muslim organizations have unsuccesfully demanded government censorship. However, despite immense pressure (also from international organizations such as the UN and the EU) the Danish government refused to call the newspaper to account.

Last week a couple of Norwegian papers decided to publish the cartoons in support of the Danish paper while in Denmark moderate Muslims, encouraged by the government’s refusal to be intimidated by the radicals, have distanced themselves from the imams. The latter announced on Friday that they no longer demand apologies from Jyllands-Posten for the publication. Instead they said they just want two things: a guarantee from the Danish authorities that Muslims can freely practice their religion without being “provoked and discriminated.” And a declaration from Jyllands-Posten that the cartoons were not published with the intention of mocking the Muslim faith. “We want Jyllands-Posten to show respect for the Muslims. This can happen with an apology, but it can also happen in some other way. We will leave it to Jyllands-Posten to come up with some ideas,” said Ahmed Akkari, spokesman of the Muslim organizations. “We want respect for Muhammad restored and we want him to be described as the man he really was in history, and that he gets the respect he deserves,” Akkari stressed that Muslim organizations are still deeply opposed to the publication of the cartoons.

The Muslim organizations and Jyllands-Posten met last week to discuss the matter. “It was a good and constructive meeting. We agreed that we need to find a solution,” said Carsten Juste, editor of Jyllands-Posten. Juste stressed that the meeting was one step in a reconciliation process which the Muslim organizations and the newspaper began in December.

Some sceptics wonder whether the demands of the imams have changed fundamentally. They still insist that Jyllands-Posten admit that publishing the cartoons was wrong and make amends for it. The sceptics argue that the paper should not settle for a compromise on freedom of expression by justifying itself. Others wonder why the radical Muslims appear to be softening their demand and seem so eager to make a deal. Perhaps the decision of Norwegian papers such as Magazinet to support Jyllands-Posten by publishing the cartoons has made the radicals reconsider. Perhaps they fear a domino effect. Some Swedish papers are considering publishing the cartoons as well. If the Swedish government subsequently follows the position of the Danish and Norwegian governments, refusing to interfere and limit freedom of expression, the position of the radical Danish Muslims, who are looking for international support, will only weaken.

According to a poll taken this week among 1,047 people in Denmark 57% of the Danes support Jyllands-Posten’s decision to publish the cartoons, while 31% disagrees. Young people and men are more likely to support the decision. Almost two out of every three males and 61% of people aged between 18 and 25 years of age did so.

Meanwhile an international organization of Muslim intellectuals has threatened to mobilize “millions of Muslims all over the World” to boycott Danish and Norwegian products unless the Danish and Norwegian government condemn the publication of the cartoons, which is called an “attack on the Muslims of the World and on the Prophet.” In Saudi Arabia people are receiving e-mails and sms messages urging them to boycott Danish products “until Denmark offers an official apology.” The Organization of the Islamic Conference protested last week’s publication of the cartoons in the Norwegian paper Magazinet. The Iranian embassy in Oslo said that freedom of expression cannot justify publishing the cartoons. However, Finn Jarle Sæle, the editor of the Norwegian Christian newspaper Norge I DAG, announced that his paper is also considering publishing the cartoons. He called upon other Norwegian editors to do the same. Sæle says that so far many of them have only written editorials supporting freedom of expression but have not dared to publish the cartoons themselves.

Asked if wider publication will not lead to unnecessary confrontations between Christians and Muslims Sæle said the intention was not to provoke just for the sake of provoking, but rather to confront radical Islam in Norway. Perhaps it is necessary to provoke in order to do that, he said. Sæle wants the Norwegian imams to publicly oppose the death threats that have been sent to Magazinet’s editor Vebjørn Selbekk. According to Sæle these threats are not just directed against Magazinet. They affect the entire Norwegian media, not just one editor who dared to stand up for freedom of expression.

More on the Danish cartoon case which The Brussels Journal has been covering from the beginning: Click here (see links at end of article)

From the article:Instead

Submitted by Heloise (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-24 02:35.

From the article:
Instead they said they just want two things: a guarantee from the Danish authorities that Muslims can freely practice their religion without being “provoked and discriminated.”

Oh yes, they want to freely practice their religion that includes its own legal system, stopping work five times a day to pray and death for apostates. Wait, a religion with its own legal and political system, isn't that called a theocracy?

And this:
“We want respect for Muhammad restored and we want him to be described as the man he really was in history, and that he gets the respect he deserves,”

Mohammed's getting a lot more respect than he deserves due to the lack of knowledge the general public has about him. What do you know about him? Read the hadiths of Bukhari and Muslim and the Sira or his biography by Ibn Ishaq. He's described in excruciating detail for all to see. These books along with the Koran are the foundational texts of Islam and define what it means to be a good muslim.

Heloise do u have any idea

Submitted by IslamIsPerfect (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 14:12.

Heloise do u have any idea of wat u r saying?
U r claiming that Muslims kill the apostates, for ur info this is a part of Islamic law which can only be implemented when thr is an Islamic leadership, which doesn’t exist n thus this law isn’t implemented plus u arrogant fool this is the same law that the torah n the bible claims for the apostates so why don’t u insult Moses or Jesus ??or insult Jews or Christians too?? Why pick Muslims? As far as ur comment goes abt prophet Muhammad n ur insulting him with ur pathetic lies than I got this to say to u” its ur kind that acted the way they did in abu ghuraib jail in iraq” its filthy and full of hate who enjoy the attack on a person who died 15 centuries ago n who isn’t amongst us to defend himself n its ppl like u who portray goodness like prophet Muhammad n Islam as evil n portray the evil like of abu ghuraib as good, so u r just as evil by going to the extremes of humiliating n torturing others .U r sick in ur head n have an evil heart . And am sure if u were able u be doing the same things as ur brethren did to poor Iraqi Muslims in abu ghuraib n n yet u the low scum is talking abt RESPECT plss keep ur filthy point of view to urself thanxx

It is all in (every) western constitution

Submitted by Harry - un ami qui vous veut du bien (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-23 14:29.

Sorry dear Muslims. Freedom of religion, freedom of expression etc. is guaranteed by every western constitution. Discussion has been closed some 50 or more years ago.

Needless to say: if you do not like this there is more than enough space for you in Muslim countries.

Give up freedom of speech and expression? I don't think so!

Submitted by bludragont2 on Sun, 2006-02-05 15:01.

I was initially quite annoyed when I heard about the attack on the Dutch embassy I must say. If we Europeans have the freedom to create cartoons depicting Jesus, Buddha, and anyone else we want to, religious figures or otherwise, why on earth should we censor ourselves and not create cartoons about Mohammed? Although I can understand, to a degree, why the Muslims are upset, pictures of their religious figure being blasphemous and so on. I think that it needs to be stressed to these people what freedom of expression really means. They need to know too that people aren’t going to be forced into censorship due to their threats of violence and burning of embassies.

The more I read about this the more ridiculous it becomes too! Now westerners are being accused of burning the Koran as well? This just isn’t the style of westerners/western journalists. We are criticised and threatened for creating artwork and intellectual expression which somehow offends the global Muslim community. It is they who seem to want to solve problems by burning stuff…

i appreciate that freedom of

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 15:04.

i appreciate that freedom of expression is guaranteed by every western constitution. in fact many people in my part of the world have paid their lives to achieve this right (which incidentally is GUARANTEED in Islam).
But the practice has apparently overriden the rule.
This applies to all of you in (what many people here call) the hypocrite west.
Your freedom gave you the right to descecrate a prophet (any prophet) muslim, christian or jewish. But i dare you all to write one sceptic sentence about the holocaust !!!

you see ... you are not FREE after all ... nor do you have that guaranteed right for free expression.

At least we know our baoundaries.

Re: Mohammed Drawings, Fundamentalist Faith & Freedom of Speech

Submitted by A New Believer on Thu, 2006-02-02 00:45.

Well, such rhetoric! It is a simple case of freedom of speech! The only differnce between a Fundamentalist Christian and a Fundamentalist Muslim is they call god by different names and conduct their services in different languages. I notice both get "bent out of shape" when someone expresses an opinion different from their own or does not worship as they say exactly. I notice both really seem to get that *eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth vengeance thingie down pat*.

I notice both seem to be willing to "blow up people, shoot people, maim people and threaten people in the name of their version of the one true and only Holy God!" (please neither groupd say you do not or Christian would not be out their killing doctors and blowing up clinics, or setting fire to their congregation i.e. David Khoresh in Texas, or Jim Jones in Central America,
or exhorting people to only vote the cross, or exhorting people to shoot other peoples elected Presidents ie. Rev. Falwell. Muslims would not be bombing children, men and women, kidnapping people and beheading them, haranguing, brainwashing and recruiting people for death squads.

Decrying the Holocaust and calling others liars about it. If you really listen to both groups they are always moaning and crying and wailing about "death to the infidel dogs!" They would both censor, control, brainwash, destroy, and denigrate ANYTHING good and most assuredly everything bad. The trouble is everything is bad to both of them.

I am sorely surprised they both have not "outlawed" singing, dancing, laughing, smiling, cartoons, candy, soda pop, popcorn or anything else inclined to make one smile,laugh or just guffaw. Maybe they were out of line, but you get out of line also at times. And if they were so pure they would not hide behind religion whenever doing their dirty work. Those Muslims are residing in "free societies" where they are allowed to dissent freely and complain.

Their mouths would be stuffed with rags getting the stuffing beaten out of them if they were dissenting in many of their "own" homelands. Of course, that is not counted.. it is all about religion. Well they have religious freedom. They get to worship to their mosques in Denmark. The Danish government has not closed them. Or was not that the reason some went to Denmark, besides economic reason. That they belonged to different sects.. ie Sunni, Shiate, Alawite, etc. Because they belonged to different sects, they were being repressed.

The Danes poke fun of Christianity also. Born to a Catholic and a Protestant, married and divorced a Muslim! I swear I think I have seen it all! Guess what! I am now a healthy, happy practicing PAGAN! GODS & GODDESSES BLESS US ALL!
Thank You Odin & Freya! Baldur save us!
I ran into their arms because of the Holy Christians and the Holy Muslims!
There are alternatives out there people!NOW! I expect someone to call me a non-believing infidel dog! And yet, I would lay down my life to defend your right to believe as you believe.

In a "democracy" not everyone agrees with everyone else about anything! We have the right to disagree. EVERYONE at some time or other is offended about something or other. If you never want to get offended, your feelings, hurt, your nose out of joint or upset.. Then go home.. to where ever it was you came from first.. That is not directed at anyone group of people it is directed at ALL PEOPLE! EVERYWHERE! Because in a "democracy" that is what happens. A mind may be spoken.

What is not allowed are death threats, kidnappings, bombings, assassinations, examples being made of. And if these folks were so secure at home they would not be sitting in other places throughout the world angry and ready to kick bum all the time. They would be at home in their former homelands governments face.. Shouting, gesticulating and raising holy heck about things there.

But... they seem to be there in Denmark getting upset. Of course, any little thing sets fundamentalists off these days. And so many are bent on "jihad!" And if their religion is as wonderful, beneficient, compassionate and caring, as I keep hearing. Then they will recognize "juvenile humor" when they see it, lodge a simple protest and stop the death talk. Praise Odin! Thank you for listening!

Re: Mohammed Drawings, Fundamentalist Faith & Freedom of Speech

Submitted by Charlemagne on Fri, 2006-02-17 21:18.

"A New Believer" writes: Born to a Catholic and a Protestant, married and divorced a Muslim!. So now you're an unbeliever - I'm not surprised. Your tiny mind obviously could not make sense of it all.

I expect someone to call me a non-believing infidel dog!Non-believing infidel dog!

And yet, I would lay down my life to defend your right to believe as you believe.I doubt it; and in any case, people WILL believe what they want to believe, whether they have a right to believe it or not. Belief is not a matter of rights but of choices.

I will not try to convert you at the point of a sword! I will not torture anyone until they confess their sins and share my one and true faith, as I have heard it phrased before. I will not decry either of you as the "Great Satans", kidnap you, kill you, maim you, try to commit genocide on you or against you. I will tolerate you, bite my tongue when needed and turn the other cheek. Both groups talk about compassion, tolerance etc...and they are so sincere as long as it does not mean the other guy might be right or have the right to say something different. In a "democracy" ... a mind may be spoken. Charlemagne fought the pagans Danes and defeated them,and King Alfred fought the pagan Danes and defeated them. And now you claim democracy as your protection and right to exist!!!!! You don't seem to realize that many/most pagans are criminals in the eyes of Christians - criminals because they break the eternal law of God; criminals who, in the words of the apostle Paul "are deserving of (physical) death". And now all these criminal deliquents claim "human rights" and "democracy" for their protection! Don't forget the Nazi's were voted in by a democracy. Democracies can be entirely given over to criminals and criminal enterprises, like the democracy in the UK is run by criminals for the benefit of criminals. Those who entrust themselves to democracy are fools indeed. But the law of God remains unchanged and by it will all judged, whether democracy or no democracy.

----------------------------------------------------Mahomet is no prophet, Allah is no faith, Islam is no religion. Christ will destroy them all.

To Charlemagne I have

Submitted by A New Believer on Fri, 2006-02-17 21:54.

To Charlemagne I have spilled my blood for christians before, protected a jew and sheltered bosnian muslims from orthodox serbians, stood up for an atheist; my tiny mind taught comparative religion. But nowhere on this forum have I lied and not said I was not pagan I have been tortured, beaten, starved, whipped and a few things you might not like as well. That I did not choose your way is not a problem for me. I treat ALL people the way I wish to be treated..until they prove they do not deserve it otherwise

You probably did not read far enough to figure out that my grandfather raised me as a "pagan!" I will not apologize for what I am ..neither will I convert for you either.. I did not convert for the muslims, why should I for you. But I will fight if you desire on a field of battle, and I will go to my gods singing my death song HAPPILY! You see once more so no one mistakes it! I am not afraid of DEATH! There Nothing you or any muslim can say to me or do to me to hurt me..that has not been done already. And truly after that, it is not so hard to take a life or loose your own. I also have never hidden from any of you the fact that I am a pagan.. it is stated everywhere.. or did some of you think I was kidding! But my parents were one of you. So I honor them, by honoring what is held dear by you. By tribal law, they had to give me up to be raised the old way. That way we do not all die out. And it pisses off the Great White Father in Washington something fierce I suppose. So feel as you feel, but you cannot impugn my name or my honor.. and my new believer is meant for the Norse not christianity I am a NEW Believer as far as they are concerned, O Defender of the Holy Roman Empire!

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

Western hypocrisy

Submitted by anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 13:12.

U r making me laugh abt ur western democracy. Hmmm so democracy in the west is only implied when it fits the western views else its called anything but democracy. With due respect to u personally I reject ur ‘western democracy” even tough I am a westerner myself n I object to ur pressurizing me to accept ur so called democracy when it fits u or else told to LEAVE to a muslim land. R u telling us all western converts to leave our country because we don’t agree with ur hypocritical so called democracy??? Jee thanx again it shows pure ignorance on ur behalf. What if a muslim draws the picture of denmarki president sucking other men’s bottom n showing his wife helping him by doing so?? Will that be ‘freedom of speech’ the so called democracy??? interesting how the west can force its view points on others in the name of democracy act soo low an arrogant n yet r given the excuse of being so called “democratic”. shame on u for accepting such low acts n insulting other peoples religion n inflicting pain upon billions of muslims in the world n yet calling it democracy. I wish a muslim publication in denmark print some filthy cartoons of denmarki president n his wife n will see if the democratic president will see that as a ‘freedom of speech’. I think u need to go back to ur moma to teach u the basics of life western constitution n yeah one lil advise from me , please look in to ur great history “the dark ages” while in the Europe people dint have more than 1 showe in a year the muslim world was flourishing in many filed of science and thanks to the muslim world the very computer u r using today which only understands binary language (01) was invented by the muslims in Arabia. If it wasn’t for muslims u be having shower 1 a year <<<.CHEEEERSSS >>>

Your statements are a testament to your ignorance

Submitted by mjmusa on Sat, 2006-02-18 16:33.

Hypocracy

Vindictiveness

Democracy demands tolerance and values freedom of speech....If you do not respect these vslues then go back to your muslim land which continues to living in simple binary theocracy...

Delusional......As for the West we have moved beyond simplistic binary thinking both from a technological perspective as well as a social perspective...

The point is that Western man, in spite of all it's past transgressions, continues to grow and develop daily in a more positive direction...

It's called growing up....
So grow up you hate filled simpleton

Democracy demands tolerance? Rubbish.

Submitted by Charlemagne on Sat, 2006-02-18 18:24.

Democracy does not "demand" anything except that "some" people have the right to vote as to whom governs the state. This is why ancient Venice, the Papal State, Calvinistic Geneva and many other authoritarian regimes with very little tolerance for antiChristian values and attitudes all have the right to call themselves democracies.

----------------------------------------------------Mahomet is no prophet, Allah is no faith, Islam is no religion. Christ will destroy them all.

freedom and responsibility

Submitted by kofi Adu Jibraeel on Sun, 2006-02-12 23:34.

I am not a journalist and may not fully understand what falls outside professional judgment. One thing is certain to me both as a US citizen and a Moslem- the current outcry over the cartoons of the prophet only serves to reinforce the perception that it is not just terrorists (of any creed) that are under attack post 911 but the Islamic faith itself. How do you close ranks with the one billion Moslems of the world to seek out the dangerous elements in their mist (and there are dangerous elements in every faith and creed) if you attack them collectively? If the Prophet is a terrorist then his message and followers must also be same. Those who present the issues under the guise of free press are being disingenuous. Moslems of all persuasions will not protest a paper that satirizes any contemporary Moslem politician, personage or country.
In every society there are norms of decency that guide conduct in the public arena.
In the US the major news media will not show gratuitous images of naked children, battlefield images of our dead soldiers etc…
One could not go to a movie house and scream fire! under the guise of free speech nor could one claim (even falsely) to have an explosive devise in any public arena without being arrested.
Do we have less press freedom because of these restrictions? Islam forbids any images of the prophet period. Even if the images were complimentary and historically accurate, they would still be against the faith. When the images are negative, inaccurate and intentionally provocative at a time in history when politicians and opinion leaders in the West often link a legitimate fight against terror with Islam, nobody’s interest is well served by such myopic grab at the worst in us.Remember that IRA, the ETA,the Timothy McVeigh's etc are not routinely identified with their religious creed. No decent Moslem will take pleasure at a newspaper depicting any prophet negatively. Our respect for the one God who is the source of all revelations ensures that all holy men will be treated with reverence.

to muslim hypocrisy

Submitted by IslaamIsPerfect on Sun, 2006-02-05 13:48.

its not "APE HYPOCRISY" its hypocrisy learn english u arab coptic khanzir :)
i know u arab coptics have too much hate for islaam dont know why
anyways stop cursing ppl n stoo winging , why dont u go to ur moma to teach u some basic manners? looking at ur texts prooves how iqnorant u r with no manners watsoever , may Allaah guide u poor soul ameen

The number system that you

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2006-02-03 08:23.

The number system that you refer to may be called Arabic but was in fact invented by the Indians and it was the concept of zero not the digit one that made it unique. Surely you cannot possibly defend the intolerant and fanatical response to these cartoons.

please take the time to read this even if u dont agree in start

Submitted by religions r cause of war (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 20:59.

though i sympathise with ur pt i jst wanna point out that 0 and 1 was invented by the indians from where it traveled to mesopotamia or modern day middle east over the arabian sea... and this development helped in the invention of computers...realizing that we cannot take away from the westerners the invention just because they built on that base...it has its own merit.(by the way the first calculation device was built in the far east called the abacus.) also i would like to say that...i am a indian myself and i do not belive in any religion cause over the centuries it has been the most frequent pretext for war and death.in india we have all the religions u might think of ...but the minorities suffer here as well none the less...dont u think the way a person relates to god must be kept in the homes and hearts of the pious and not in the streets and the govt.also if we got to fight with the westerners why not on their own turf ...i mean intellectually .we indians are already on the move stealing their jobs and driving them homeless etc...in our own country as well as going to their own countries and outdoing them.please join our effort irrespective of any religious divide and lets make us "iraqies " (used in a derogatory manner by them for all ppl of brown colour) the most powerfull force in the world and defeat them in this manner so that it is a complete victory from which they can never recover...
urs truly
a friend in this struggle

The appex of the Islamic

Submitted by An American Student (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 06:15.

The appex of the Islamic Civilizatrion was hundreds of years ago. Are you really going to try to take credit or demand respect for achievements that are centuries old? If you wish to follow that train of thought then consider the fact that when the Romans where building roads and an Empire the "Arabs" and the precursors to Islamic civilization where squatting around camels in the middle of the desert. 50 years ago thats still what you where doing and in 100 years, when the world is less reliant on oil, you will be again. Your religion is grotesque and backward, no matter how tolerant you wish to make it seem. Freedom of speech is one of the most sacred rights western democracy has imparted on Human civilization. You are ignorant, your religion is backward and I can not wait for the day when your people are assuredly put back in their place, squatting in the desert where we found you. Filth.

to american student

Submitted by IslaamIsPerfect on Sat, 2006-02-04 14:11.

American student u idiot u think all Muslims r Arabs?? N we all live in the desert?? N r u truly a student or a patient in a mental hospital ? bgtw where exactly u come from ?? n how did u arrive in america? Have u read ur own history?? Ur ancestry comes from those criminals n bastards who went to America n stole America from its original ppl (red Indians n other like Arabs) do u know Arabs went to america way b4 u but none of them killed red Indians or did injustice to anyone unlike u the barbaric bustards who entered countries like Australia n America , stole it from its native ppl n did all sorts of injustice in the name of Christ
Thanx for setting an example of “a true American student” haha

may Allaah guide u ameen

to islamisimperfect

Submitted by Patriot on Sat, 2006-02-04 14:18.

Have you always been so ignorant??

Re: Western hypocrisy by anonymous on Tue, 2006-01-31 13:12

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 05:06.

Either get yourself an education, or get on your camel and go back to your goat-herding in the mountains. What a brinless idiot you are!

Are you really sure?

Submitted by Marc (not verified) on Fri, 2006-02-03 02:09.

First to say: excuse my bad english, i am german.

Are you really sure, that all that rubbish, you are populate here is of any sense?
I personally don't care in ANY WAY what nation or culture my friends do belong - I don't care, if they are proud of anywhom or not. If you explicitly have to decide which nation is cooler and which nation is smarter - beware of the indian culture which was destroyed by the conquerers. They had knowledge of the world which partially was higher than our knowledge is today.

And, after all, this is one little world you guys should better take each others hand instead of trying to find snippets which show you as a better man than the other. This is poor - so poor. And IF you need those discussion for profiling yourself - take thing YOU did - not things, anyone did in the past - it is not relevant who invented flying - after all it was NO arabic which first thought about that...

If you want to profile yourself - take it with Bob Geldorf - make poverty history - THAT'S IMPORTANT!

Regards, Marc

cant this muslims think the

Submitted by tosin (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 15:12.

cant this muslims think the EU provides funds of about 600 million euros to the palestinian Authority...yearly not one arab contry donates to the so called muslim brotherly state. I blame west for indulging those bastards.
Why when there si catastrophy in those arab world the only place they think of coming is europe why not saudi arabia? coz they all hypocrit bastards. Arabs are camel Fuckers thats for real. NERMIN

support danish and norweigian economy

Submitted by Ron Schultz (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 16:19.

Buy anything you can to support those countries that don't back down from economic blackmail.

Any Danish or Norweigian company that cowers and apologizes for the actions of a free press, yes we should boycott THEM.

Boycott the products of any country that does not respect the freedom of expression. We might have to cut down on oil and dates.

why would i mind having a

Submitted by islamisperfect (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 14:31.

why would i mind having a camel for a ride?????do u ?? after all camel was the best way for traveling in the olden age but as far as the present time is concerned i have a nice porsh n i love driving it:)) cheers n hmm calling me an idiot lol wat can i say to an arrogant fool like u???? who seems to love speaking from pure iqnorance. my advise to u is go to hell :)) n yeah i decide as to where i should live , if i happen to ask u for advise abt it than u open ur trash mouth for now pls keep it to urself thanxx <<<<<<<>>>>>>>

you might as well print swastikas or wave the stars and bars

Submitted by Justin Sarma (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 08:27.

I'm not muslim, so I'm not offended by this, but I am amazed at what a paper will do to get a bit of attention. Would it be furthering free speech to print swastikas all over your paper? I don't think so. I respect your right to publish these cartoons, but I don't respect your decision at all. We all have a right to live in a free society, but that right is constantly threatened by conflicts between groups who choose to use that right to foment conflict.

Binary numbers

Submitted by Bob Doney on Wed, 2006-02-01 00:30.

the very computer u r using today which only understands binary language (01) was invented by the muslims in Arabia.

I think not! Binary numbers were used long before that! And Roman plumbing was simply awesome...

Bob Doney

Binary Numbers

Submitted by Adalazie (not verified) on Fri, 2006-02-03 10:34.

Bob Doney,

Yes, the claim that the Arabs invented the zero is certainly contestable (though the Arabs undoubtedly contributed much to mathematics, not least Algebra, itself an Arab word).

I believe there is a good deal of support for the theory that the Greeks invented the zero, necessary for shipping, in which, of course, the Greeks engaged long before the Muslim golden age.

The Politics of Confrontation

Submitted by dag (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 02:56.

Europeans and modernist Westerners generally do not seem to understand the very word Islam, and certainly not the concept: "submission."

We in the modern world are revolutionaries. We do not recognise that generally. We are revolutionaries and those Muslim populations in the world are not. Our revolutionary lives, no longer stuck in the endless cycles of subsistence agriculture and feudal social relations, are so utterly different from those of the majority of the world's populations that they and we have little in common, certainly almost nothing intellectually in common. Perhaps more important than anything else, we in the modernist world do not "submit." Rather, we think, we analyse, we critique, we grapple with ideas. Muslims submit. They do not think. They accept. That is something we must accept. Muslims are unlike us. We, on the other hand, are so different from the world at large that we are revolutionary.

Free speech is not a long term concept in Human history. Private property is not an old concept. And the right to own ones life as ones private property is new.

To combat the reactionaries of the greater world and to continue our revolutions in the Western world we must continuously strggle against the primitivism of old, especially as it is now expressed in Islam. Modernist adherents to the concept of free speech are a small minority of the world's people. If we do not struggle successfully to retain our modernist rights, then we will sink back to the days of old and submit to the will of Irrationality, as do the populations of Islam.

Our postion here is that to make the situation clear to all involved, particularly to ourselves in the modern world, that Islam is old and stable and until 250 years ago the rough model for all the world's people, we must confront ourselves by making the Muslim world confront us without pretense. We must see the Islamic world as it is-- without illusions. We must understand that our modernity is in conflict with the Irrationalist world of the majority of the world's people. We try to bring that conflict into the open by producing, for example, graphics of Mohammed that are calculated to insult Muslims to the point that they are forced to confront their own reactions to the trivial, and so that we are forced to confront our reactions to our own commitment to Muslims as they are. We are modernists, Muslims are not. We cannot continue to pretend we are alike. We must find our clear differences and deal with them as they are. We can do so by publishing cartoons. Muslims then must deal with reality squarely, and we with their reactions. Then we will know.

http://thestudyofrevenge.blogspot.com/

Viva la Evolvution!

Submitted by Emma on Sat, 2006-02-04 20:16.

Sorry, I have nothing yet to add, just thought that Dag's ingenious post deserved another airing.

Submitted by dag (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 02:56.
Europeans and modernist Westerners generally do not seem to understand the very word Islam, and certainly not the concept: "submission."

Free speech is not a long term concept in Human history. Private property is not an old concept. And the right to own ones life as ones private property is new.

Muslims invented the computer? Hahahaha

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 16:36.

"thanks to the muslim world the very computer u r using today which only understands binary language (01) was invented by the muslims in Arabia"

How amusing. You invented the number system and now are taking credit for inventing the computer? Please tell me how many common household products you use that are "made in Arabia by Muslims".

I don't see any Arabic cars on the streets of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar or other Muslim nations. There aren't any televisions, airplanes, DVD players, computers, or other household items invented and built in Arabic nations that they can export to other nations.

So what exactly do Arabic nations export to other nation? Only one thing. Oil. And they can't take credit for inventing that!!!

oh fuk off just b cuz the

Submitted by MUSLIM AND PROUDD on Thu, 2007-03-29 00:26.

oh fuk off just b cuz the ppl from ur home counry dont make shits u dont have to 'try' and put down other coultrie... if ur frum china thats different:P i guess wut im trying to say is dont hate.

cartoon

Submitted by JH (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 21:12.

Would anyone email me a copy of this cartoon?

arroqant fool

Submitted by islamisperfect (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 14:24.

looooooooooooooooooool dats because Arabs r too rich n have better things to do than to build cars n make housework products else wat wil u be doing in the west????? do u get me?? Arabs pay the west to do their jobs :)))) else the poor west will die from hunger if it wasn’t for the money of the Arab world n if u don’t believe me read in to the American economy n see for urself as to how this 'great America' is surviving with the investment of the rich Arabs. Once again why should Arabs waste time in building cars n making housework products when u guys do it for them?? lol n yeah u fool binary language consist of 0s n 1 is the computer language so if the Arabs dint invent this 2 numbers how could the west come up with the binary language which enables fools like u to have a magical appliance called computer?? Ha ha ha u seem to love laughing now laugh plsss n keep laughing n sleep on it aswell <<<<<>>>>>>

Still laughing....

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 13:56.

The only reasons arabs are rich is because of oil. Look at how rich arabs were before the discovery of oil in the early 1900's. How rich were they then? They weren't. Your entire civilization profits from oil, nothing else.

to Anonymous from nermin

Submitted by nermin on Thu, 2006-02-02 14:12.

that i s why you are malicious because god blessed arabs with oil ..which appeared to your knowledage not as you said after we get rid of all french and english occupation from the area not in 1900 as you claim..otherwise..they would hav e never gone..
yes god blessed us with oil and to your teasing saudi arabia which contain our most holy places contain the biggest reservoir of oil in the world..

Why?

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 14:25.

The why do you guys come to Denmark, or ever Europe for that matter? Go back to your oil, get out of Europe!

to Anonymous

Submitted by nermin on Thu, 2006-02-02 15:02.

Your are really bastard..i tried to be polite with you but you donot deserve that anymore…so your are happy and proud with the jews who killed your savior Christ while you say that you are Christian…how hypocritic fool are you….
You dare to mention 7 day s war .what about 1973 war when goldamaer cried on the phone to uSA president saying that Israel is dying so he sent her ready jets with pilot to fight the Egyptian army …if Israel is strong why uSA and Europe support her. and why uSA gives her the apatchi and f16 …
Yes tehfinal batl ewill be ours and ask jewish rabbi ..also ask natura karta group which has site on internet and how know better than you that fate of Israel will be death..here is their site mr fool…… http://www.nkusa.org/.
Also here is a useful site for where you canfind how women are mentioned in your facked bible. http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac10.htm#links
And donot forget to be always on the side of your beloved jews whom you burnit in your damned land and whom you say they killed your Christ savior..hhhhhha

nermin drops the veil again

Submitted by grumpy (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 18:33.

Nermin, in some of your interventions you preach that islam is the most tolerant of religions, that JC is a prophet for you as well, that islam has nothing against jews etc...
And the next moment "we no longer deserve" you to be polite (just polite, not honest? just diplomatic perhaps) and we are fools, bastards, we will be killed and the bible is "facked" (surely you typed too fast there).
You think you are doing "the fastest growing religion" a service by your many interventions, but honestly you are opening some people's eyes in a totally different way.
Also I have experienced that when I use arguments in the discussion you no longer reply. Which is fine with me, but gives to think.
I would strongly suggest to all participants on this blog no longer to reply to your interventions. You are not looking for a discussion, you just enjoy a rant and slow the site down.

Narmin its time to pray!

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 17:35.

Narmin, you used foul language like "bast.." this indeed reflects where you come from and the teachings you preach!. Either you go for prayer and give us a break from your VALUABLE statements or have a bomb belt around your waist as you may be anxious to have 72 virgins! As for me I was moslem and now is seeing how ignorant moslems are! Few cartoons are leading to such anger and hatred in the moslem world who is utterly dependent on the west. You need to read about the truth of your religion. Rest assure that ignorance will never lead knowledge and one day many moslems will realize the fallacy of Islam..

ok i'm a 21 year old

Submitted by shady (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 18:24.

ok i'm a 21 year old egyptian and i claim that i have the enough knowledge to have a quite clear idea of what islam is ...and i 've never heard something got to do with 72 virgins in islam!!!what's that Mr. anynomous who could only make fun of some spelling mistakes or even some foul language !!what's wrong with not having enough and fluent english yet she has the courage to defend what she believes in??? u clain that u were uslim before ..i just want you to tell me the defintion of islam, what it calls for...very basic knowledge ..i'm sure u'll fail in every answer...and PROVE ME WRONG..
i kinda respect anon11 who seems to be a guy who actually thinks ,speaking from background knowledge at leaSt..even though i totally refuse his endless misconceptions about islam...but sadly i find that most of the people on this forum are just ignorant,airheaded ,close-minded wannabes...i'm really sorry to say this but apparently u guys just wanna have an opinion about everything ..about a religion u don't even know .slow down with watching cnn & nbc and start reading for a change.. and PLZ STOP GENRALIZING THE ACTS OF SOME MUSLIMS claiming they're acting according to islam...they simply don't!!!!!!islam doesn't encourage any inequality between men and women,completely forbid taking lives..i can go on and on... i'm sure u all have the absolute wrong picture of islam...i mean before u judge a religion followed by 1.6 billion people ..get some basic knowledge of what u're talking about.this is truly the core of the problem ...wrong information of islam from all the wrong sources.. !!

Answer from Anon11 to shady

Submitted by Anonymous11 (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 19:09.

"kinda respect anon11 who seems to be a guy who actually thinks ,speaking from background knowledge at leaSt"
Thanks... I think.

"!what's that Mr. anynomous who could only make fun of some spelling mistakes or even some foul language !!what's wrong with not having enough and fluent english yet she has the courage to defend what she believes in???"

You're not talking to me I hope?
If I remember correctly I merely pointed out that I was not sure what Nernim was saying at one point, possibly because of Nernim's less than perfect grasp of the English language.
I then proceeded to add - tongue-in-cheek - "(no offense, my Arabic is no doubt worse)".

"even though i totally refuse his endless misconceptions about islam"
Feel free to correct me, i.e. feel free to refute any statement I have made by offering evidence to the contrary.

"but sadly i find that most of the people on this forum are just ignorant,airheaded ,close-minded wannabes"
You're only referring to those who do not share your point of view, but I'd like to reiterate my previous point: Both sides - as represented on this forum - are making biased uneducated statements. Calling the Jews greedy, comparing them to rats, calling the West morally bankrupt or referring to Muslims as camel fuckers does not promote constructive dialogue. Who knew!
Perpetuating unfounded stereotypes is the antithesis of civilized debate, but, sadly, this is an acitivity numerous posters - Muslim and Western alike - do not care to engage in.

to anon... i kept typing a

Submitted by shady (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 21:25.

to anon... i kept typing a reply to you for the past half an hour clearing things up and i can't believe i lost it!!..i'll try to clarify once again few points

1)"You're not talking to me I hope?"

no, i wasn't talking to u there was this guy who was mocking nermin for her mistakes using this to show that arabs are actually an ignorant illiterate inferior race..

2)"Most other religions are static and resistant to change, some even reactionary."

i'm not sure how islam can be resistant to change and static..and on what basis are u willing your religion to change...can't u see all the contradictions in the MANY !! bibles u have nowadays resulting from continous change over the decades..i can shock you with all the contradictions which is opposing to the core and the spirit of christianity..

3) "Do you have any idea how much relief and aid developing countries receive from the West? "

once again here you are referring to the actions of human beings in charge of strategic positions like EU..now u're talking politics...i'm not saying u're wrong..but u're actually off point..the main problem is the lack of understanding of the islamic tradition leading to our present crisis..

4)"Jyllands-Posten were entitled to publish those cartoons and YOU are free to demonstrate and call them disrespecful fools for doing it"

you have to understand that there are red lines we cannot cross..and without these red lines the world would be in a crazy chaotic state..full of hatred and wrath..let's say we're friends and everything and all of a sudden i start mocking everything you believe in ,making fun of all that is sacred to you..how would u feel about me??drawing the prophet(pbuh) was a huge mistake ..just drawing a good picture of him is actually something that is totally prohibited and forbidden in islam..it was initially banned to avoid idolatry as in the case of christain nowadays ..instead of worshipping the god who created jesus christ (peace be upon him) and believing in the message he delivered they practically worshipped jesus the creature forgeting about the creator of all things..

5)stop jumping to conclusions upon watching CNN,stop relating lunatics' words claiming they know anything about islam to the true traditional islam..it's only a matter of knowledge..so plz start reading..

Pictures of Mohammed

Submitted by Bob Doney on Thu, 2006-02-02 23:21.

just drawing a good picture of him is actually something that is totally prohibited and forbidden in islam

I thought that pictures of Mohammed are freely available in many Islamic countries. Is this not true?

Bob Doney

to Mr Bob from nermin

Submitted by nermin on Fri, 2006-02-03 11:56.

for how many times should we say that we don’t have any photos of the prophet in our countries. is that amazing to that extent to you…you should have realized from the that big outrage about these photos that it is the first time that muslims see such drawing.
No matter what some people here says that there are drawing in some countries long time ago but this is not logic because I challenge any of you if anyone could find such photos presented, shown and of course sold in any Islamic country.
I challenge you to find any type of pictures or statues in any mosques ..so donot fool yourself more….
This total ignorance will not lead to anywhere.

to Mr Bob from nermin

Submitted by nermin on Fri, 2006-02-03 11:51.

Total ignorance

Submitted by Bob Doney on Fri, 2006-02-03 11:59.

so donot fool yourself more….
This total ignorance will not lead to anywhere.

I asked a question, Nermin. You answered it. But do you have to be so rude?

Bob Doney

Applaud your idea

Submitted by US_Marine_vet on Sun, 2006-02-12 07:30.

You got the right idea. Civilized, evolved intellects don't need to throw nasty little names and get people feeling defensive. The world is getting smaller...We have to live with each other. tolerence is good; cooperation, compassion, hear hear, lets bring back the days of morals and ethics.