Danish Muslims Divided over Cartoon Affair

The public prosecutor in the Danish town of Viborg has dismissed charges by 11 Muslim organizations in Denmark against the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten for its publication of 12 cartoons depicting Muhammad (see them here) last September. Islam prohibits depictions of the Muslim prophet. The charges were brought forward in October. The public prosecutor said the publishing of the cartoons did not violate laws on religious or racial discrimination or on blasphemy. Legal experts say this was to be expected. However, the Muslim organizations are disappointed and are considering appealing to the State Prosecutor and even to the European Court of Human Rights.

Meanwhile some imams, Muslim intellectuals and representatives of Muslim organizations in Denmark have visited a number of Muslim countries to “explain” the matter to local political and religious leaders and media. Their “explanations” were biased and inaccurate. The Danish-Egyptian Dialog Center in Cairo says that after meeting with the Muslim representatives from Denmark the Egyptian press has claimed that Danish newspapers are waging a campaign against Islam, that Copenhagen plans to introduce a state censored version of the Koran, that a Danish film is underway „to show how horrible Islam is“, and that the matter involves 120 cartoons – not 12.

In an editorial on January 1 Jyllands Posten called this “absurd diplomacy” and wondered why the Danish imams were spreading such hatred towards Denmark. Their loyalty is obviously not to Denmark but to Islam. These visits have also caused controversy among Muslims in Denmark. Hadi Kahn, chairman of the Organization of Pakistani Students in Denmark (OPSA), stressed that the group travelling to the Muslim countries does not represent all Muslims in Denmark.

A number of Danish professors said that it may damage the cause of Muslims in Denmark to continue trying to raise international criticism on Denmark instead of using the Danish legal system. The purpose of these visits has been to increase international pressure on the Danish government, but the whole issue has already become a major international dispute involving the United Nations, the European Council, the European Union, the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, and the Arab League.

Most recently the Islamic Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (ISESCO) called upon its 51 member states to boycott Denmark unless the Danish government apologizes for the cartoons. Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen has said that he has no power over what the media publishes since Denmark recognizes freedom of expression and freedom of the press. In his New Year’s Speech Rasmussen once again stressed the importance of protecting freedom of expression, but also the importance of demonstrating mutual respect and understanding for others. The speech is usually only translated into English, but was now for the first time translated into Arabic because there was much interest from Arab countries. This was seen as a positive step towards easing the tensions.

Last Thursday, Foreign Minister Per Stig Møller phoned Amr Moussa, the Secretary General of the Arab League, in an attempt to ease tensions. The two men agreed that this situation needed to end. Moussa also accepted the Danish position that there should be a mutual respect between religions and that politicians should not interfere in what the media decide to publish.

 

More on this topic:

Jihad Against Danish Paper, 22 October 2005

Cartoon Case Escalates into International Crisis, 27 October 2005

Out of the Iranian Frying Pan into the Danish Fire, 29 October 2005

Pigs Do Not Fly, 17 November 2005

Bounty Offered for Murdering Cartoonists, 4 December 2005

UN to Investigate Racism of Danish Cartoonists
, 7 December 2005

Dispatch from the Eurabian Front, 9 December 2005

Europe Criticises Copenhagen over Cartoons, 21 December 2005

Cartoon Case: EU and UN Call Denmark to Account, 28 December 2005

Danish Cartoon Affair: Letter from a Muslim, 31 December 2005

Why Buy Paper? Read The Brussels Journal
, 8 January 2006

Nermin, Hitler and Stalin

Nermin, Hitler and Stalin are considered to be the most influential 20th century figures. Whichr proves ... what exactly?????? By the way you already posted this comment a few days ago.

to this grump

again hitler and stalin went to recycle bin of the history..
while prophet of islam is still alive in the hearts of one fourth of the earth and after more than 1400 of his death.not only this but aganist you rnose,his religion is the fast growing religion in the world, especially USA and france...
hit your heads in the nearest wall.you are just malicious jeolous people.

jelous?

of your shit countries ?
muslim will be the most decresing religion when we expulse of you from europe and usa.
begin to making yours bags .
go back to your gheto islamic countries.

to hallyu

i am already living in my islamic country who respect all faiths and donot drip with animosity an dhetred like yours.
you hav enothing nothing to say but nonsense, empty words as we say in arabic...all of you failed to reply to what i post about monaco prince and apolozy an dfining of pary match...is not pary match is in your dammed contintent with freedom of press too....and why in france their minister was attacked due to his free words about gays...hi wake up poor peopel

to hallyu

i am already living in my islamic country who respect all faiths and donot drip with animosity an dhetred like yours.
you hav enothing nothing to say but nonsense, empty words as we say in arabic...all of you failed to reply to what i post about monaco prince and apolozy an dfining of pary match...is not pary match is in your dammed contintent with freedom of press too....and why in france tehir minister was attcked due to his fre words about gays...hi wake up poor peopel

iraq country of civilization

Sir John Bagot Glubb

“Khalif (Caliph) Al-Ma'mun's period of rule (813 - 833 C.E.) may be considered the 'golden age' of science and learning. He had always been devoted to books and to learned pursuits. His brilliant mind was interested in every form of intellectual activity. Not only poetry but also philosophy, theology, astronomy, medicine and law all occupied his time.”
“By Mamun's time medical schools were extremely active in Baghdad. The first free public hospital was opened in Baghdad during the Caliphate of Haroon-ar-Rashid. As the system developed, physicians and surgeons were appointed who gave lectures to medical students and issued diplomas to those who were considered qualified to practice. The first hospital in Egypt was opened in 872 AD and thereafter public hospitals sprang up all over the empire from Spain and the Maghrib to Persia.”

On the Holocaust of Baghdad (1258 C.E.) Perpetrated by Hulagu:
“The city was systematically looted, destroyed and burnt. Eight hundred thousand persons are said to have been killed. The Khalif Mustasim was sewn up in a sack and trampled to death under the feet of Mongol horses.
“For five hundred years, Baghdad had been a city of palaces, mosques, libraries and colleges. Its universities and hospitals were the most up-to-date in the world. Nothing now remained but heaps of rubble and a stench of decaying human flesh.”

call fro islam from non muslim

Thomas Arnold in 'The Call to Islam.'

"We have never heard about any attempt to compel Non-Muslim parties to adopt Islam or about any organized persecution aiming at exterminating Christianity. If the Caliphs had chosen one of these plans, they would have wiped out Christianity as easily as what happened to Islam during the reign of Ferdinand and Isabella in Spain; by the same method which Louis XIV followed to make Protestantism a creed whose followers were to be sentenced to death; or with the same ease of keeping the Jews away from Britain for a period of three hundred fifty years."

jews and christians in islamic countries

Dr. William Draper in 'History of Intellectual Development of Europe'

"During the period of the Caliphs the learned men of the Christians and the Jews were not only held in great esteem but were appointed to posts of great responsibility, and were promoted to the high ranking job in the government....He (Caliph Haroon Rasheed) never considered to which country a learned person belonged nor his faith and belief, but only his excellence in the field of learning."

Bernard Shaw and islam

Sir George Bernard Shaw in 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936

"If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay Europe within the next hundred years, it could be Islam."
"I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity."
"I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today."

Bernard Shaw

The best story about Bernard Shaw, who was very thin, is that G K Chesterton, who was very fat, said to him, "Shaw, when I look at you I am convinced there has been a famine in the land."

Shaw replied, "And when I look at you I know what caused it."

Bob Doney

Napolean Bonaparte and islam

Napolean Bonaparte as Quoted in Cherfils, ‘Bonaparte et Islam,’ Paris, France, pp. 105, 125.

"Moses has revealed the existence of God to his nation. Jesus Christ to the Roman world, Muhammad to the old continent...
"Arabia was idolatrous when, six centuries after Jesus, Muhammad introduced the worship of the God of Abraham, of Ishmael, of Moses, and Jesus. The Ariyans and some other sects had disturbed the tranquility of the east by agitating the question of the nature of the Father, the son, and the Holy Ghost. Muhammad declared that there was none but one God who had no father, no son and that the trinity imported the idea of idolatry...
"I hope the time is not far off when I shall be able to unite all the wise and educated men of all the countries and establish a uniform regime based on the principles of Qur'an which alone are true and which alone can lead men to happiness."

Bonaparte

I hope the time is not far off when I shall be able to unite all the wise and educated men of all the countries and establish a uniform regime based on the principles of Qur'an

No egomania there then!

Bob Doney

can anyone reply to this

In Uk after princess Diana death, they outrage on the media an d the press and wanted to make laws which save the personal life of celebrities and royal family members ..
In france recently prince albert f monaco sued paris match mazasien for publishing a true story about his secret son and he won the case and the magazine apologized in its front page in the same place where it published the same true story about him before .not only this but the magazine will pay him money as compensation(The prince successfully sued Paris Match for invasion of privacy, and last week the magazine was fined €50,000 in damages, plus costs) Q.f.the guardian. …
For whoever want to get assured see this link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1521232,00.html
so there is no absolute freedom of speech as you all claim….
So can anyone tell me where is the freedom of speech here..is not France is present in Europe tooo or is it transferred and we donot know..
Again double standard measures and genuine hate and arrogance toward anything which is related to islam and muslims..
Can any one reply to me

Deja vu

I keep getting this groundhog feeling with Nermin's posts.

Bob Doney

i want a reply to this

Europeans think that freedom of speech is guaranteed in Europe, and that they are defending it against Islamic pressure. This is a view that is widely propagated and defended by groups from across the political spectrum. Reality, however, presents us Muslims living in Europe with another experience. Muslims and others in Europe can not say everything they often want to say and they risk being arrested and prosecuted if they do. Muslims and other religious people can not express their disgust from homosexuality and clearly state that they believe it’s a sickness and a deviation without being persecuted for being homophobic.
Mr Jahjah certainly has a point here. Not only Muslims are not allowed to voice all their opinions. Only last week the French parliamentarian Christian Vanneste was sentenced in court to a heavy fine because he had stated that “homosexual behaviour endangers the survival of humanity” and that “heterosexuality is morally superior to homosexuality.” Earlier last month a majority in the European Parliament called for sanctions against Poland and the Baltic states because their governments are said to be “homophobic.” In the Netherlands access to certain jobs in the civil service is effectively denied to anyone religious (be it Christian or Muslim) who refuses to participate in concluding same-sex marriages. And the EU wants to force doctors to perform abortions and euthanasia because, it says, the right to conscientious objection is not “unlimited.”

You wanna reply? I givva reply

And the EU wants to force doctors to perform abortions and euthanasia

Anything the EU wants is likely to be a very bad idea. I'm against it on principle.

Bob Doney

danish cartoons

Not only is the freedom of speech the most important one in a democracy- it is essential that we practice it! To restrain ourselves in order to not offend the beliefs of others is a giant step down the road to abdicating freedom and human dignity.

Prophethood - a sham

Semitic religions ie Judaism-Christianity-Ialam are obsessed with Prophets- who are fake . Can it be believed that GOD who is omnipotent will act or send his message through a single person? How absurd this belief is? The institution of Prophethood is not above board.Prophets de-mean god by making HIM their puppet.

hope those imans are expeled from denmark

i hope danish prime minister do what blair did in Uk and expulse all those imans.
they are very dangerous
and liers.
those imans arent part of denmark as nation.
they should be back from where they came.

to this Anonymous

Your are really bastard..i tried to be polite with you but you donot deserve that anymore…so your are happy and proud with the jews who killed your savior Christ while you say that you are Christian…how hypocritic fool are you….
You dare to mention 7 day s war .what about 1973 war when goldamaer cried on the phone to uSA president saying that Israel is dying so he sent her ready jets with pilot to fight the Egyptian army …if Israel is strong why uSA and Europe support her. and why uSA gives her the apatchi and f16 …
Yes tehfinal batl ewill be ours and ask jewish rabbi ..also ask natura karta group which has site on internet and how know better than you that fate of Israel will be death..here is their site mr fool…… http://www.nkusa.org/.
Also here is a useful site for where you canfind how women are mentioned in your facked bible. http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac10.htm#links
And donot forget to be always on the side of your beloved jews whom you burnit in your damned land and whom you say they killed your Christ savior..hhhhhha

What was the whole thing

What was the whole thing about? JP brought those pictures not to provoke anyone, but because they earlier found out, that no one in DK dared to make pictures of Muhammed! So they wondered whether islamists really have so much influence and hold all of us hostage, telling us how to behave?
Well, the answer is - yes! Those pictures weren't bad at all. I've seen pictures of Jesus that were 100 times worse, Chriastians in the whole world get abused and offended! but they never threaten the live of the people offending them. Today I found some links of Arabic pictures of jews that were 100 times worse.
And what about things like burning the flags of a country? that's 100 times worse than those pictures.
The newspaper should never escuse, they did nothing wrong! The only reason why they excused was because they were pressed by the company that looses enorm sums of money due to the blockade of Danish milk in the middle east.
we should stand together against the radical islamists, and bomb Iran before this fundamentalistic country finds out how to make a bomb.
Islamists want to overtake the world, and there "fugitives" in Europe serve as help for them!

What we want

We want you to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan , and to stop stealing our resources, that's all

Those who condemn the cartoons are insecure Muslims

I can only assume that those who get so upset about some cartoons somewhere are actually very insecure about their religion and themselves. Do they feel that a few cartoons in some paper in some foreign country are a threat to the whole religion? If so, it must be very, very weak. Otherwise, why worry so much about it? True, strong Muslims don't care about this.

Real Muslim

I am strongly condemn the article regarding danish muslims divided in Cartoon issue.. we real muslims will not accept those Muslims (whom you claimed as supporting the cartoon or not protesting it) as "Muslim" and they are realy non-belivers and non-muslims.

A real muslim means he should oppose the Danish Govt Stand.

Are those who condemn the cartoons insecure in Islam?

I can only assume that those who get so upset about some cartoons somewhere are actually very insecure about their religion and themselves. Do they feel that a few cartoons in some paper in some foreign country are a threat to the whole religion? If so, it must be very, very weak. Otherwise, why worry so much about it?

True, strong Muslims don't care about this.

read about him before insulting him

even if you donot belive in the prophet of islam , you should at least respect him as so many others thinkers did.he succeeded in making a nation over 1.5 billions not drinking alcohol and preserving morals . in his absence islam is the fast growing religion in the world.islam attracts not only ordinary people but intellectuals and thinkers and university stuffs like murad hoffman and others.

Are You a Real Muslim or a Terrorist?

What should you do with Muslims who you think are "really non-believers" because they speak out about extremists? Or who think that Muslims have more important things to worry about than some cartoons somewhere? Or who feel that people like you are not true Muslims?

John is a Liar

Freedom of expression is one thing but freedom to lie??? John lying about prophet Mohamad peace be upon him will not misguide any intellectual who can go to any search engine and put Islam and look for themselves

Freedom to lie?

Freedom of expression is one thing but freedom to lie???

Well, yes. That's part of the concept. I know it's hard. I know it's thorny. But "freedom of expression" means what it says.

Bob Doney

Mistaken

You are mistaken. I have never seen such a blatent disrespect of faith and to defend that by saying it is a freedom of expression. If I were to cuss your parents out infront of you that is rude it is not freedom of expression. Prophet Mohamed to the muslims is more important than our own parents are.

Blatantly mistaken

If I were to cuss your parents out infront of you that is rude it is not freedom of expression.

Well, in my opinion it would be rude AND an exercise of freedom of expression. Freedom of expression implies you are free to say what you like - lies, rude things, anything. Most countries have some restrictions where inciting people to hatred or violence are concerned. I'm not aware of any country which allows you to say absolutely anything.

Bob Doney

The fact is: If Islam were

The fact is: If Islam were not a tolerent religion, then there would be no church or cynagogue standing today in Muslim countries since 1400 years (Muslim conquest in Syria, Lebanon). The Muslims were by far the most powerful people on earth at the time yet did they destroy the churches? If yes, howcome we see them standing today? When was the first mosque in Europe or even in Denmark built?

If Danish people had died to save Denmark from Nazi Germany, wouldn't they be hailed as heroes? So why do you accuse Islam and its prophet of being a terrorist when they hail all who defend Islam? Many of the hadiths that came inciting Muslims to take up arms are in self defence. the Prophet had spent 13 (40-53) years in Mecca trying to communicate the message but no one listened. When he migrated to Medina (53-63) then he incited Muslims to fight in SELF DEFENCE after the people of Mecca wanted to destroy his religion

Freedom of expression has

Freedom of expression has its limits! There is no such thing as freedom of expression when it comes to depicting our Prophet (may peace be upon him) in that way. The cartoon shows how ignorant and narrow-minded the cartoonist and the newspaper are. Holy figures of Islam and any religion should not be mocked at! Where have the concept of religious tolerance and acceptance gone?

DSH

Holy figures of Islam and any religion should not be mocked at! You are so right, but then, is it ok to say all europeen and white humans are barbaerian and Nazist?
I can't tell anybody how sorry I am for mr. bashar dannaoui and how stupid some of his comments here at Brussel Journal is, when we talk about respect for religion and freedom of expression.

dear muslims do not give

dear muslims do not give explanation about our profit this and that they are trained to treat us bad for them muslims arabs are barbaerian but they do not see themselfs becuase they are white nazist arian (dear mr jasper the danish did not do anythink about nazism and adolf hitler becuase they like hime you the danish knew what was happening with the jew nothing happens read your history this i call barberian they masacared children in bosnia non of you europpean did anythink it was for bill clinton with 2 steel ball wich you danish has not react)
please my fellow muslims as pero today ask someone ti draw their jesus instead that the roman crusified him they shuffeld THE CROSS UP HIS ASS you have a lot of money buy spaces in the danish newspaper attack this people where it heard them most the same way make fun of their churches make fun of their religion put this fucking oil barril up to 100 dolares freeze these stupid raciste arian europpean do no be ration and protest or kill do the same do the same make fun of their beloved jesus buy spaces in their newspaper let us how first if they accept to publish this.........mr jasper they cut the throat of a black boy in brussels the arian belge why you do not react ahhhhhhhh excuse me he is black sorry no blond blue eye dam it man open your eye

Irritating

white nazist arian

It's irritating that you accuse others of racism and yet use expressions like this throughout your posts here.

Bob Doney

Mr. bashar dannaoui you are

Mr. bashar dannaoui you are a well spoken man, but I don't think you know why the Danish goverment did'nt interfear with the German army.
On the other hand it does'nt make any Danish people proud by knowing the Danish goverment only protested and not fighted the German soldiers under the attack in 1942.

But then as a muslim do you think it is ok that a man like Saddam Hussien was exicuting people who didn't do what he said?
I think you have to think about it all one more time, before you call anybody barbarian, and if you do, look at a man like saddam, Musulini ore Mao...

With all do respect - I don't like the drawings about Muhammad in the danish news papers, i have my opinion about those drawings, and I life ide by side with muslims families and life with Respect for them.
But I cant have respect for a man who justifice it's ok to call every dane and europeen for ...barbaerian and white nazist arian..

I know the history of my family, we where banded from France in 1700 with other families because we wanted to belife in somethink else, if my family did'nt leave France, we got chucked of our heads... so don't tell me to open my eyes..!

I hope the danish newspaper will say they are sorry, but it don't have to be on the cost of a whole nation who don't like the drawings of your profit!

dear jasper (peace on me the

dear jasper
(peace on me the day i born and the day i die and the day i resurecate)that is what the messenger jesus said in our coran defending his mother god bless her mariayme witch is mary when they accused her with sin...and he said that in teh mahd means when was recently born this is hos first miracle in islam.....that is why you hardly see any muslim newspaper do any fun about religion symbol wether is jewish or christiian with all the war is going ...i wrote these expression with tears in my eyes and heart but you saw the reaccion no one like it my friend even teh one who do not believe do no t like it....we have the right to protest and boycott...these issue what is happening let us not give gasolin to the radicales...my friend..west east have to respect each other religion and culture
and let me tell you about saddam this is a kafer you know what that means he is not muslim he is crinimal worst then hitler wiped a lot of his country man and god said in the coran (the day when you see the criminales chained till their neck) that is in the judgmente day god blessed us with this view on earth we saw him shained what happens to him he is crinimal and also the iraquis they were responsible with him when he was in power they did nothing like most of europpen and danish in the second world war i never told you that what did saddam or other dictator is islamic or they represent islam islam is a religion for everyone and arabic iraquis lebanese what so ever are a nation......
attack religion symbol is not nice believe look what is happening

muslim be proud of these

muslim be proud of these momnet if it was not teasing them islam this will not be happening do the same make cartoon about their jesus the holy devil pop about their culture and alwyas remember the nazim and colonizm always remain in their blood they saw a lot of jew extreminated they did nothing they saw a lot of children women raped and killed in bosnia nothing did happens becuase they was muslim and these masacre happens in europe and the europpean ruled soouth africa in teh aparteit regime one police officer ducth origin confessed in the recocilation and truth fact (big bullshit lie) that he use to put bomb under teh living prisioner and nothing happens to this arian europpen man...ah he can do what ever he want he is eurroppean
do the same muslims make fun of their religion and that whore royal danish family let us see if they can take it or not

Man, do you think the danish

Man, do you think the danish people would care if you draw the danish royal family?
Every year a book of drawings of the danish goverment gets puplished and the royal family is often in the press with cartoon pictures, so yes, we can take it.... One more thing... The Danish peolpe is NOT Nazists!!

you cannot compare royal danish family to any prophet

what is this foolishness. do you compare any king or prince or whatever to the prophet mohamad or prophet abraham or david or whatever.tell me why you cannot express your doubt about the real figure of jews killed by hitler if you are talking about freedom of speech

Response to Nermin

Was the prophet a god?
Now, I already know the answer to this
so..wondering what your answer will be?
Because Mohammed was a man just like you Nermin. Abraham was a man also, as was David. So are you telling me that Mohammed is more important than your God? Just trying to understand. Because ANY man is not as important as a God. But ALL men are EQUAL!

Not interested in your discussion of hitler, jews etc.

Just answer the my question so I understand WHERE YOU are coming from
thoughtwise.

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

to this A New Believer

the prophet mohamad is a humna being like moses ,abraham and the christ who all peace be upon all of them great people sent by god to guid people and who deserve all respect,love and appreciation..and this is something your little mind cannot recognize.

To Nermin: See already off to a bad

See already off to a bad start I asked you a simple enough question. and my little mind has two Batchelors and two Master in Theology and Comparative Religion. So lighten up Nermin, you are not that intellectually fantastic. I asked you because the way you stated your premise was that it sounded as if you were say he was better than any man.
I have respect for everyone's religion. But I do not follow that respect blindly. But you acknowledge that they are all just men.

Great men, good men, even bad men, not so good men, all men are equal. Yes I understand the differences between each of their roles in society and in life. But the essence of it all is that they are still men. And as men no one is higher than another. I believe that if you Nermin were a good and conscientious man, devout, in your faith, tolerant and caring. That you are as good as Abraham or Moses etc. You see I was not mocking or making fun of you, but I wanted an understanding of how you esteemed a man. And how is was that you esteemed that only people long passed are as good today. You do not know anything about the Royal family of Denmark. So you cannot make that assumption nor can I. You make sweeping generalizations and accusations, perhaps you should do further research before you cast aspersions upon ANYONE! May Odin, my God grant you wisdom

Odin be Praised! Baldur Save Us!

Foolishness

foolishness. do you compare any king or prince or whatever to the prophet mohamad or prophet abraham or david or whatever.

Whyever not? That's the wonder of the human mind... It can compare anything to anything. Personally I don't believe in raising any individual past or present to some super status. All people have virtues and good ideas, and all people have vices and failures. It's healthy to present a balanced picture and not get too reverential. For instance, I admire Winston Churchill's singleminded fight for liberty against Nazi tyranny, but at other points in his public and private life he had some very bad ideas and did some very naughty things. That's what makes him human and interesting.

tell me why you cannot express your doubt about the real figure of jews killed by hitler if you are talking about freedom of speech

Agreed!! It's very boring having a debate with Holocaust-deniers, but very necessary.

Bob Doney

to Bob

you cannot express any doubt about the real figure of jews killed by hitler because it is baned and you have double standard and the french writer who wrote a book about the exaggeration of that figure was jailed and beaten in paris , the city of light and freedom.we need standards in our life Bob and there is no better standards than the prophets of god. you contraindicate yourself....of course you cannot take churchil or others as unique standards or examples

Doubt

you cannot express any doubt about the real figure of jews killed by hitler because it is baned

Not where I live, it isn't. In the UK. David Irving is free to publish any of his rubbish here, so long as he doesn't libel journalists!!

By the way, I don't believe in prophets (in the sense of people having some exclusive, superior insight into what God wants), so I can't use them to set standards.

Bob Doney