Cartoon Paper Justifies Itself to Saudis
From the desk of Paul Belien on Sun, 2006-01-29 21:21
In an open letter to the “honoured citizens of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia” the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten emphasized today that it never intented to offend Muslims by publishing 12 cartoons of Mohammed last September. The letter, written by Carsten Juste, the paper’s editor, was published both in Danish and Arabic. It was translated for us by Hjörtur Gudmundsson:
Honored citizens of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia,
Allow me this opportunity to correct a few misunderstandings regarding the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad, which have now led to a boycott of Danish products in your country.
The cartoons were published four months ago as a contribution to a Danish debate on freedom of expression – a right to which we attach great importance in Denmark.
The initiative has been interpreted as a campaign against Muslims in Denmark and the whole world. This I strongly dismiss. It was not our intention to offend anyone for their religion. That it has nevertheless happened was also not intentional. We have regretted that many times during the past months. Both in our own newspaper, other newspapers, on TV, radio and in the international media. At the same time we have had meetings with representatives of the Muslim community in Denmark. Those meetings have taken place in a positive and constructive spirit and at another meeting we intend to establish an effective dialogue with the Danish Muslims.
We regret that this affair has assumed such proportions and therefore it must be repeated that we did not intend to offend anyone and that, like the whole Danish community, we highly respect freedom of religion.
With kind regards,
Carsten Juste
Editor-in-chief
On 20 January during Friday prayers religious leaders throughout Saudi Arabia called for a boycott of Danish products. The boycott quickly spread to other Gulf states, including Iraq.
This has led to considerable nervousness amongst Danish companies, such as Arla dairy products, which have more consumers in Muslim countries than in Denmark. The company reported an incident in which stones were thrown at a vehicle carrying Arla products and Arla employees have been thrown out of stores along with their products. Panicking Danish companies pressured Jyllands-Posten to explain its conduct.
The paper published the cartoons last September after a Danish author had complained that he could not find an artist to illustrate a (respectful) book about Muhammad. According to Islam it is blasphemy to depict the prophet. To test to what extent freedom of expression had been affected in Denmark the paper put out a call to some forty illustrators to send them pictures of Muhammad. Only twelve dared to send them drawings, which were subsequently published in the paper to illustrate an article on censorship and freedom of speech. The cartoons were pretty mild by Western standards (see them all here, halfway the article). We have seen worse, and are quite certain this would never have been published by Jyllands-Posten. Nevertheless the publication of the cartoons led to rioting and death threats were directed at the paper and some of the cartoonists.
The Brussels Journal, too, received several threats this week, including this one, which was sent to us yesterday:
what you published on your website about our prophet Muhammad “peace and blessing be upon him” is outrageous and disrespectfull to our prophet and our relegion and is unacceptable.
and i ask you to care much about people’s feelings, what would you do if some newspaper or website have an ironic drawing of a holy sympole of your relegion?? ofcourse you will be mad because you are a human have feelings.
we muslims will never make jokes of any prophet for chirstians jews or any other prophet of god , because simply they are all prophets of our god and they all holy to us.
but if you didn’t remove the cartoons and apologize to all muslims we will boycott your products and we all know how much was the losses in the few days from that cartoons issue, second we will fight you in every possible way to teach you a lesson how to disrespect our religion, after all i’m not a terrorist but after i’ve seen these cartoons i want to kill the people that did that each and every one of them and call me terrorist after that.
We welcome the many posts on our site by Muslims because we believe that dialogue is a good thing, though in this case the two sides seem to be speaking different languages. We wonder whether Muslims know what is meant by the Western concept of freedom of speech. Today a Muslim woman posted this comment on our site:
I am a Muslim from the United Arab Emirates(UAE), and co-existence here is at its best. Most people would complain but then content is hardly ever reached by mankind. So far,we have had very minimal issues in the UAE and that is thanks to the tolerance each race/religious group has for one another. Islam is a religion of tolerance and yet there are those who will provoke and those who will respond to such provocation.
It baffles me as to how big a topic like this can become. I would like to state that regardless of what religion you are, an individual will be offended if certain religious symbols/characters are displayed in a provocative way. When I say ‘provocative way’ I mean in the sense of creating hatred towards or amongst that particular religious sect.
I firmly believe that such acts should be deemed as inappropriate. If freedom of speech were true as per its wordings then people would end up 'missing' due to what they can say and display. I believe in all due fairness, that people will always abuse freedom of speech and it will one day end up biting those people. I mean karma says is ‘What goes around, comes around’.
As a final word of warning; if you squeeze a kitten to a corner it will defend itself. Meaning, don't provoke a religious group that you know is the world's fastest growing faith; Islam (statistically).
Like our Muslim reader we are baffled to see how big a topic this has become. This does not bode well for the future of Europe, where Islam is growing fast and where the freedom to publish fairly innocent cartoons now seems to have been lost.
More on the Cartoon Case (see links at end of article)
You have no right to say
Submitted by Karel (Not Karen!) (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 20:37.
Hi, firstly: thank you Rukhsar, for your rather moderate reacting to my response. Still, I want to point out that in spelling the title/name of your holy book every country and language has his own way of lettering it: Koran (Dutch), Coran (English) and your way of trying to capture the sounds - Quran.
Tell me one thing: why should anyone respect religion (any), if religion wants to dictate them to obey in something they do not believe in? Doesn’t 'islam' mean just that: submission. obey, surrender!!?? How can you talk about freedom? That's "Pax Arabica": freedom for the people who belong to the same tribe and stay in line. So do not eat pork, do not make pictures of Mohammed or God, don't allow your women to her face or hair or other innocent body parts, do not touch or allow dogs in the house, drink no alcohol (the Arabs brought us the viticulture and exported it – just in time -, before they started to renounce it to themselves - thank 'god', sorry, just a figure of speech!). For a muslim it seems an incomprehensible statement to hear (or read) that somebody wants to have nothing to do with religion (point blank, basta!). Being an atheist or humanist is the fundament of our existence - all the rest is magic, myths, inventions - projections of an irrational state of mind. What is freedom, if beforehand you have to obey to so many rules and conditions? That's making the world in a kind of kindergarten of eternal immature creatures!
Nobody knows what Jesus or Mohammed looked like - in a time without cameras that cannot be helped. But the mind/imagination is free and what does it really matt if it doesn't looks alike the real thing. The cartoonist wanted something completely different: he wanted to make clear to everybody what - for him and many more westerners - the Islam stands for: aggression, blind fury (black strip before his eyes) and the submission of women (burka); he poked fun at the Arab for being blinded with the same size of black strip that is left open for the wives in their burka and maybe he wanted to depict him as a criminal, whose face commonly is blocked out to avoid recognition. The West has a long tradition of satirical drawing/cartooning to mock and lampoon. It is the democratic tool of the common public with which to attack their bosses and the people who want to boss them around. If it gets too personal or slanderous and not serving any general purpose of public importance of incites to hatred, then you can sue them in the courts. With this drawing you won’t come very far.
Rukhsar, com on, is it really worth all the fuss?
Karel
What is freedom and what is violation
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 19:37.
westeners always think themselves as heros !! actually they are idiots, Fools !!!!!
i would like to ask if someone get your daughter's or sister's or mother's photo and fix it with a nude body and publish that photo in a newspaper with all details (name address so on) what will be your response? will you be happy to see your loved one in nude ? and will you call it "freedom of speach". What will you do?
your freedom of exprssion is valid until you dont touch my nose. if you touch it, then you have violated your rights.
dont just do everything in the name of freedom. if you want to write caricatures , think you loved ones and make them look funny. dont touch or insult my heart (prophet mohammed, peace and mercy be upon him). if you do it, you will pay the price.
you kindle the fire and later call others terrorists.
Muslims Throwing Temper Tantrums
Submitted by Karel (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 02:30.
Humor has to do with a sense of selfrelativation - not taking yourself too serious. Mohammed was no god and as all human beings prone to mistakes. His language was Arabic - just as all other languages a human invention, an imperfect means to communicate with others. So calling the Coran a holy book writen in a holy language is per definition nonsense.
The West escaped in the 16th century from the idea that The Bible was a holy book and that the RC-church had the monopoly on the TRUTH. In that period (Renaissance)learned to adopt a scientific attitude: looking for the truth by reasoning and experiment. Why didn't that happen in China and muslim countries: in China was each invention the property of the emperor (so it could not spread) and in the arabic/muslim culture was after 900 A.C. a free and personal view on the world forbidden: the Coran became the holy truth, Mohammed the infallable prophet and Arabic the language of god, with mullahs as the exclusive interpretors of the Coran.
That irrational attitude made it impossible for muslims to use their own heads. It robbed them from the democratic right to question their belief and the authority of the mullahs. In that sense is the islam totally opposed to the idea of democracy and the principle of free thinking and free speech.
The only way for them to react to mockery is shouting an threatening with violence, because anything that threatens their way of looking at the world must be annihilated.
Why should the West have any respect for people without sense of humor, if the muslims show no respect for their great tradition of free thinking and free speech?
Karel
Keep your mouth to your self Karen
Submitted by Rukhsar (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 11:31.
You have no right to say anything about any religion you do not believe in, and when you can't spell the holy book's name dont even attempt it!! shame ful people like you are a disgrace to the human race itself.
Islam in not a religion it is a way of life, a manner of how to live not being animals like you!! We never said the Prophet Mohammed was god, but the Holy Quran (which you can't spell) was revealed through Him, as i said before,do your research about the religion and then criticise it, don't be so stubborn and blab anything out!
Keep your mouth to your self Karen
Submitted by Karel on Sat, 2006-02-04 21:48.
Dear Rukhsar, you are very quick in shutting up other people, but that is your problem. It won’t stop me from enlightening you on a few points about your believe.
Of course everybody knows that Islam is both a religion and a way of life. However, in prescribing coercively in details what believers have to do and not to do in their daily life, Mohammad has put his followers in a kind of corset. It is a very clever litmus test to distinguish believers and unbelievers. He learned that from the Jews and - excellent psychologist as he was – he must have realized its purpose and applied it in abundance to control his followers.
You assert that the Holy Quran was revealed to Mohammed and that was certainly true, but how could you possibly know for sure it came from Allah??!! It is just Mohammad who said so - you merely have his word for it. That would not hold in any court. Mohammad prides himself for not doing any miracle (like Jesus did, reluctantly): the qur’an was his miracle! Yet the quran has not been handed over to him in one go but over a period of many years, what diminishes its character of revelation strongly and makes its composition haphazerdous. Mohammad claimed the language of the quran was of such an unsurpassed beauty that no poet could match it. Of course his enemies and competitors tried to prove him wrong and produced in turn alternative texts, many of a mocking, satirical content. In his anger and worry he had them all killed, when he came in the power. Read about it in the very long hadith about the poet KA`B AL-ASHRAF by BUKHARI, VOLUME 5, #369. Mohammad hated satire, mocking, lampooning (and cartooning you can add!) for it undermined his claim to be a godly messenger and his assertion that his gift as a writer of holy inspiration was unique.
Many devoted muslims exhaust themselves in repeating that Mohammad was perfect, peaceful and merciful towards his enemies. They cite sura upon sura, hadith upon hadith to prove it. But it is an indisputable fact that he had to wage war to get the upper hand over his enemies and doubters. He sent letters to all leaders and kings to convert to islam, ending his invitation with "Aslem, Taslam!"- what will say “Surrender or face death!” . The word islam comes from the same root and means: submission, surrender. If you do, then you will have peace! And if not, you will be dead. Pax Romana and Pax Arabica mean therefore the same: play by my rule and you will be safe, otherwise I will exterminate you. Our word “peace” has a total different meaning. So telling ignorant people that Islam means peace is a misleading statement. The Qur'an states clearly that those who go back from Islam are to be punished by death: "But if they turn renegades seize them and slay them wherever ye find them and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Al-Nisaa 4:89." Muhammad also said, as narrated by Al-Bukhari, "If somebody - a Muslim - discards his religion, kill him."
So to my opinion Islam is not the religion of peace. The aggression, uproar and threads to people or persons who connect the islam with extremisme, suicidebomber and terrosisme, speaks for itself and helas prove the cartoonist right. The muslims should better reflect on their violent past and reinvent itself as a really peaceful belief. That requires courage and personal honesty.
I wonder if you are known with this facts. I guess not, for you sound like somebody who likes to reason and will listen to reason.
Regards, Karel
Keep your mouth to yourself Kaaren
Submitted by Karel (and not Karen!) (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 19:01.
Hi, firstly: thank you Rukhsar, for your moderate reacting to my response. Still, I want to point out that in spelling the title/name of your holy book every country and language has his own way of lettering it: Koran (Dutch), Coran (English) and your way of trying to capture the sounds - Quran.
Tell me one thing: why should anyone respect religion (any), if religion wants to dictate them to obey in something they do not believe in? Doesn’t 'islam' mean just that: submission. obey, surrender!!?? How can you talk about freedom? That's "Pax Arabica": freedom for the people who belong to the same tribe and stay in line. So do not eat pork, do not make pictures of Mohammed or God, don't allow your women to her face or hair or other innocent body parts, do not touch or allow dogs in the house, drink no alcohol (the Arabs brought us the viticulture and exported it – just in time -, before they started to renounce it to themselves - thank 'god', sorry, just a figure of speech!). For a muslim it seems an incomprehensible statement to hear (or read) that somebody wants to have nothing to do with religion (point blank, basta!). Being an atheist or humanist is the fundament of our existence - all the rest is magic, myths, inventions - projections of an irrational state of mind. What is freedom, if beforehand you have to obey to so many rules and conditions? That's making the world in a kind of kindergarten of eternal immature creatures!
Nobody knows what Jesus or Mohammed looked like - in a time without cameras it cannot be helped. The mind/imagination is free and it does not really matter if it looks alike the real thing. The cartoonist wanted to make clear to everybody what - for him and many more westerners - the Islam stands for: aggression, blind fury (black strip before his eyes) and the submission of women (burka); he poked fun at the Arab for being blinded with the same size of black strip that is left open for the wives and maybe he wanted to depict him as a criminal, whose face commonly is blocked out to avoid recognition. The West has a long tradition of satirical drawing/cartooning to mock and lampoon. And if it is too personal or slanderous and not serving any general purpose of public importance, then you can sue them in the courts. With this drawing you won’t come that far.
Is it really worth all the fuss?
Karel
You have no right to say
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 11:58.
You have no right to say anything about any religion you do not believe in, and when you can't spell the holy book's name dont even attempt it!! shame ful people like you are a disgrace to the human race itself.
1) There is no karen, learn to read
2) That is harsh, so we cannot say anything about islam, because we don't believe in it right? Well seeing as you do (I guess), you should shut up about what other non muslims (Christians, non believer, everyonte of the 4.8 Billion people) can and cannot do. And i will tell you, we CAN make drawing of stick figures en say it's mohammed, and we CAN publish in our newspapers what we want!
3) I won't even commet on that last sentence, but i thought someone said islam was a peaceful, toleran religion...
You have no right to say
Submitted by Karel (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 20:47.
Tell me one thing: why should anyone respect religion (any), if religion wants to dictate them to obey in something they do not believe in? Doesn’t 'islam' mean just that: submission. obey, surrender!!?? How can you talk about freedom? That's "Pax Arabica": freedom for the people who belong to the same tribe and stay in line. So do not eat pork, do not make pictures of Mohammed or God, don't allow your women to her face or hair or other innocent body parts, do not touch or allow dogs in the house, drink no alcohol (the Arabs brought us the viticulture and exported it – just in time -, before they started to renounce it to themselves - thank 'god', sorry, just a figure of speech!). For a muslim it seems an incomprehensible statement to hear (or read) that somebody wants to have nothing to do with religion (point blank, basta!). Being an atheist or humanist is the fundament of our existence - all the rest is magic, myths, inventions - projections of an irrational state of mind. What is freedom, if beforehand you have to obey to so many rules and conditions? That's making the world in a kind of kindergarten of eternal immature creatures!
Nobody knows what Jesus or Mohammed looked like - in a time without cameras that cannot be helped. But the mind/imagination is free and what does it really matt if it doesn't looks alike the real thing. The cartoonist wanted something completely different: he wanted to make clear to everybody what - for him and many more westerners - the Islam stands for: aggression, blind fury (black strip before his eyes) and the submission of women (burka); he poked fun at the Arab for being blinded with the same size of black strip that is left open for the wives in their burka and maybe he wanted to depict him as a criminal, whose face commonly is blocked out to avoid recognition. The West has a long tradition of satirical drawing/cartooning to mock and lampoon. It is the democratic tool of the common public with which to attack their bosses and the people who want to boss them around. If it gets too personal or slanderous and not serving any general purpose of public importance of incites to hatred, then you can sue them in the courts. With this drawing you won’t come very far.
Rukhsar, com on, is it really worth all the fuss?
Karel
You have no right to say
Submitted by Karel (right spelling) (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 20:44.
Hi, firstly: thank you Rukhsar, for your rather moderate reacting to my response. Still, I want to point out that in spelling the title/name of your holy book every country and language has his own way of lettering it: Koran (Dutch), Coran (English) and your way of trying to capture the sounds - Quran.
Tell me one thing: why should anyone respect religion (any), if religion wants to dictate them to obey in something they do not believe in? Doesn’t 'islam' mean just that: submission. obey, surrender!!?? How can you talk about freedom? That's "Pax Arabica": freedom for the people who belong to the same tribe and stay in line. So do not eat pork, do not make pictures of Mohammed or God, don't allow your women to her face or hair or other innocent body parts, do not touch or allow dogs in the house, drink no alcohol (the Arabs brought us the viticulture and exported it – just in time -, before they started to renounce it to themselves - thank 'god', sorry, just a figure of speech!). For a muslim it seems an incomprehensible statement to hear (or read) that somebody wants to have nothing to do with religion (point blank, basta!). Being an atheist or humanist is the fundament of our existence - all the rest is magic, myths, inventions - projections of an irrational state of mind. What is freedom, if beforehand you have to obey to so many rules and conditions? That's making the world in a kind of kindergarten of eternal immature creatures!
Nobody knows what Jesus or Mohammed looked like - in a time without cameras that cannot be helped. But the mind/imagination is free and what does it really matt if it doesn't looks alike the real thing. The cartoonist wanted something completely different: he wanted to make clear to everybody what - for him and many more westerners - the Islam stands for: aggression, blind fury (black strip before his eyes) and the submission of women (burka); he poked fun at the Arab for being blinded with the same size of black strip that is left open for the wives in their burka and maybe he wanted to depict him as a criminal, whose face commonly is blocked out to avoid recognition. The West has a long tradition of satirical drawing/cartooning to mock and lampoon. It is the democratic tool of the common public with which to attack their bosses and the people who want to boss them around. If it gets too personal or slanderous and not serving any general purpose of public importance of incites to hatred, then you can sue them in the courts. With this drawing you won’t come very far.
Rukhsar, com on, is it really worth all the fuss?
Karel
if they ban danish products we european should ban muslims produ
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 12:12.
well if they boycott danish goodss,
we europeans must boycott muslims products
i began to do it,i hope you all do the same
fellow europeans.
if they are 1.2 bilions we are 0.5 bilions ofended by their religion.
we cant allow those dictatorships thinking
this is not saudi arabia,
is Europe
the free man born in greece, we are europeans citizens cant be blackmailed by fanatics.
stop buying muslims products.
There are no muslim products to boycott.....
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 14:33.
Here are some facts I gathered about the stereotypical "middle eastern" countries compared to the "western" countries. The figures are a little out of date but are in the same time period for a decent comparison. I have even included japan just to prove a point.
According to Nermin muslims are so smart, so intelligent and they invented the computer, numbering system and several other things. The west loves beating up on france so I've taken frances gross national product and compared it with the combined totals of the following majority muslim nations: Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Yemen, Bahrain, UAE, and Qatar. Guess what? France alone has a higher gross national product than 9 middle eastern countries combined!!!
I've also included the major exports of the 9 middle eastern countries mentioned above along with France, Germany, Denmark, Normway, Japan, United Kingdom and the United States.
Not a single middle eastern country produces ANY technology. So to all of Nermins "smart" muslims:
If you're so smart why can't you build an airplane, car, machinery, or other items of high technology? Creation of oil is a natural process so the middle east cannot take credit for oil as something they produce.
Saudi Arabia GNP = USD $173,100,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Crude Oil and Refined Products, Natural Gas.
Kuwait GNP = USD $34,120,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Crude Oil and Oil Products, Natural Gas
Iran GNP = USD $111,008,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Carpets and Rugs, Crude Oil and Refined Products, Fruit,
Leather Goods, Nuts, Raw Cotton, Textiles.
United Arab Emirates (UAE) GNP = USD $38,720,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Crude Oil, Fish Meal, Natural Gas, Prawns, Shrimps.
Bahrain = USD $4,283,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Crude Oil, Fish, Petroleum Products
Qatar = USD $7,871,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Chemicals, Dates, Frozen Shrimps, Oil and Natural Gas, Steel.
Iraq = USD $12,640,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Cement, Cotton, Crude Oil and Refined Products, Dates, Hides, and Wool
Egypt = USD $36,679,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Crude Oil, Cotton, Fruit and Vegetables, Rice, Textiles
Yemen = USD $6,864,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Coffee, Cotton, Processed Fish, Refined Oil, Sugar
United Kingdom (UK) = USD $1,042,700,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Agriculture and Industrial Equipment, Aircraft, Crude Oil and Petroleum Products, Chemicals, Electrical Goods, Food Products, Iron and Steel, Non-Ferrous Metals, Transport Equipment, Vehicles.
United States (USA) = USD $6,738,400,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Aircraft, Cereals, Chemicals, Coal, Electrical and Electronic Goods, Fruit and Vegetables, Instruments, Machinery, Motor Vehicles, Petroleum Products, Soya Beans, Small Metal Manufactures, Textiles, Tobacco.
Denmark = USD $137,610,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Animal Foodstuffs, Chemicals, Dairy Products, Electronic Equipment, Fish, Furniture, Leather, Machinery, Meat, Oil and Gas, Sugar.
Norway = USD $113,527,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Aluminum and other Non Ferrous Metals, Chemicals, Crude Oil and Natural Gas, Fish, Iron and Steel, Machinery, Paper, Petroleum Products, Ships, Timber Products.
France = USD $1,317,950,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Cars, Cereals, Chemicals, Clothing, Electrical Equipment, Iron and Steel, Leather Goods, Petroleum Products, Processed Foods, Textiles, Wine.
Germany = USD $1,908,570,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Chemicals, Food, Instruments, Iron and Steel, Lignite, Machinery, Motor Vehicles, Potash, Railway Equipment, Textiles, Yarns and Fabrics.
Japan = USD $4,693,200,000,000
MAIN EXPORTS: Chemicals, Electrical and Electronic Equipment, Instruments, Iron and Steel, Machinery, Metal Goods, Motor Vehicles, Ships, Textiles
There's a problem. They ban
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 13:03.
There's a problem. They ban Danish goods (dairy goods) and we ban...what...oil? They can live without cheese spead, but we need their oil.
77 virgins for men what about women jihadist 77 men?
Submitted by tosin (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 13:17.
Can anyone tell me why the muslims are so gullible that they believe that, if they kill themselves as the act of jihad about 77 women virgins will be waiting for them in heaven. How can a real normal human being think that way. But one question they never thot'about is the women jihadist, the women that goes for the same succide mission what will be their reward in heaven? 77 virgin Men for a woman? hmmmm that will actually make them wanna go to heaven quickly but am sure that was not said to the women. I bet you no man will allow is wife to go on such mission.
Muhamed Cartoons
Submitted by Joergen (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 19:05.
Many muslims keep defending there right not to be offended. Some Muslims use the Koran, to kill, bash, torture gay people like me. Its is my right to critise them and their book. Islam is a political force. They can't hide behind the sacred and throw stones at other. I'm offeended evry day on behalf of my gay brothers in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan etc... Blessed be Jyllands Posten for standing up to our freedoms
Verified
Submitted by Verified (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 04:44.
This is a copy of a letter I sent to my Senator:
"Dear Sen. Nelson: My name is [name went here] and I am writing in regard to the programming at WB network in this area (see address above) [address was listed above]. As you know, television programming, the content thereof, has been an issue of important national interest, as it regards standards of decency, language, and so forth. For this reason I would like you to take steps to see that the 12:00 to 1:00 PM hour have an IMMEDIATE content change, another show must be put on, in my opinion, forthwith (that means now). At 11 we have Springer, and I must say, it's gotten better now that Joe Lieberman has been distracted by the whole "war" thing or what have you, the fights are better again. At 1:00 is Judge Mathis, you gotta love that guy. A solid watch. But at noon? Maury F'in Povich. Ya, THAT Maury. If you are like me, you have had just about enough of the ghetto-mockery and the "that is NOT your baby!" crap. ENOUGH already. Then he has the shows where grown ups, so called ADULTS will yell, scream, jeer and taunt a 12 YEAR OLD . . . for acting "rebellious" in the manner of dress or whatever. Who needs to see adults shame themselves like that? Half the wild kids become successful, half of them screw up and end up dead, in jail or burnt out, but ALL of the boring kids end up pushing papers and magaging kinkos (at BEST). Anyways, I was thinking "Cheaters". I know it's usually shown late at night (what with the host getting stabbed and all, lol) but I think it would be a good fit. Know what I'm say'n?
Sincerely,
[I signed my name here]
It's not about islam
Submitted by Mr. Imanuel (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 20:43.
It's about some religion telling people what to do.
For the islam defenders and "proud woman" (whatever that is supposed to imply):
I don't care about your prophet nor zeus, odin, ra and all the other fine gods people worship. Don't involve me into your religion, don't tell me what to do, don't tell me what to say.
Where do you get the right to tell other people what to do!? Because you are special and are offended? Or is it that someone is offending your god? If thats the case, nobody will be more pleased if he could file a complaint so we can treat the matter with the utmost priority.
How about all the people that offend me? The liars in the churches offend me every week, the liars in the mosques offend me every week, the liars in the synagouges offend me every week. Yet I accept that if they lure people into their cults with their lies or assimilate them as children there is little I can do. I feel sorry for all of them but if people want to believe in believe in supernatural myths then thats their choice.
Freedom
Submitted by Trivella Umberto (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 14:56.
There are 400 years of history that divides Europe from any Islamic nation...Why? Illuminism, the very essence of westen world. That a nation is led by ANY religious confession is absolutely contrary to that heredity. The freedom of the individual as we know it, was born in Europe, and not accidentaly--it could have only happened here.
Talking about freedom...
Is there ANY Muslim nation, that allows Christians even half the rights that Europe offers to her muslim brothers?
Do you see churches in the Middle East?
How do the Islamic associations talk about us unfaithfuls?
Has a woman any rights against violence inflicted by her own family?
Is a woman even a juridic subject in Koran, or outside of it?
Why does such a 'peaceful' religion condone suicide bombing?
..How should we have a dialogue with a religion that almost since yesterday considered printing machines as th devils' invention!!
So, i don't think muslim culture can teach to us nothing new about freedom and tollerance. (nor has usa)
Ps. We know what unfortunately awful things happens with our religious "leaders", with all the pedofilia accusations...and even worse.
BUT, we know it, we joke on it, we laugh at it!
If that is too hard.. well, you always can go back to your paradise of freedom and equality!!
In reply to your comments:
Submitted by Wisam (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 17:52.
[Quote: Do you see churches in the Middle East?] : Go to Syria or Lebanon and count the churches, you will find the number far more than the number in some European countries. In fact, the Christians overhear are far more religious than the once in Eurpe!.
[Is there ANY Muslim nation, that allows Christians even half the rights that Europe offers to her Muslim brothers?] Yes, actually, we have Christian officials in high position in Syria, even in Iraq during Sadaam times! Read more, and not only from western sources!
to who write about freedom (trivella)
Submitted by nermin on Mon, 2006-01-30 15:41.
what freedom do you talk about and what rights given to women you talk about .when islam came in 570AC there was a big meeting like conferance in france discussing if womne is a human or an awful disgusting thing.islam gave women more than 1400 years ago rights to inherit, to own , to run her own businness.the prophet himself was married from a big business woman. teh pgysician who was curing the muslim soldier on th etime of the prophet was a female doctor. i can give you things to read about islam and about th eprophet and about the position of women in islam and christainty and juadism but you are hiding yourself.woemn in europe are handled from taht man to the other under the umberlla of freedom you arer happy with.in france till today in some province, the eldest son i stehone who inherit only...till now in each european country and in each states of eth USA they still putting their own made laws regarding divorce ,an issue settlted more than 1400 years ago by islam. islam attracts intellectuals worldwide.can you tell me why islam is attracting converters nowadays despite all these propganda made by your media. i suggest you just enter islam is the fast growing religion in th eworld in any search engine you use as key words ...and then come and tell me. you should read before speaking MRs travella
more cartoons
Submitted by Rene (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 09:30.
This cartoon rage is dragging on too long and even up to the level of the UN. I think all the non-muslim and those who believe in the freedom of expression should post in the internet more cartoons depicting the true history of prophet mohammed and the hypocrisy of the cult islam.
to who posted more cartoons
Submitted by nermin on Mon, 2006-01-30 10:30.
you suffer from pychological disturbance for sure.from where do you get all this hatrede and animosity towards the prophet mohamd. sure you donot know anything about him. why you donot go and make yourself busy with your own affairs and ask for cartoons exposing and mocking those corrupted priests who sexually abuse altar boys and ask for other cartoons exposing teh discovery of 20 pregnant nuns in one missionary by the priests .all this is admitted by your churchs and pop. this will open for sure very funny cartoons about how the priest and nuns were enjoying their time while inviting people to the christ.
to nermin - more cartoons
Submitted by mike (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 13:43.
Catholic priests are ordinary humans and they dont claim to be prophet like mohammad do. If priest and nuns commit sins so be it because they are ordinary humans and we dont follow their ways unlike the muslims who follow the ways of mohammad. When in fact mohammad him self killed hundreds of people raped women and enslaved children who do not want to convert islam. That is the way of mohammad and muslims idolize mohammad.
to mike
Submitted by nermin on Mon, 2006-01-30 15:03.
you are completely ignorant mr mike an d donot know what you are talking about. can i ask you from where did you get these inforamtion about the prophet. did u read the quran or any books about islam written by muslims. of course not.....can you tell me why islam is the fast growing religion in th eworld and why in USA itself tehrate of convert is four times after 11 of sepetmebter when people rushed to read about islam to find out so they trun into converting Mr. mike....how you say islam prophet raped women while adulterous is a major sin in islam and muslims people worldwide are the only people who preserve morals and ethics.in our countries noone live with anyone without marriage Mr. mike .islamic countries are theonly one in UN against making gayness legal. and you dare to talke about the prophet who was the method of god to make us muslims following god orders....those corrupted priests an dnuns are claiming to be sinless and devoted to christ orders.donot you see they deserve to be insulted and mocked for their hypcricay an dfooling other people who are supposed to trust them..why you donot give concern to your own proplems instead to turining to the prophet of islam who succeeded in his life and his death.
to nermin - koran and hadith
Submitted by mike (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 15:54.
Yes i have read koran and hadith, plenty of it. I used to be a muslim but after reading the koran i've given up islam. koran and hadith mentioned more about sex, war and killings rather than peace and love. in koran women is just a sex object and not a human being. in hadith it is written that you can rape or enslave women who are not believer of islam. Yes it is true that plenty of people read the koran after the 9/11 to find out why muslims turn out to be suicide bombers, why it is legal for muslims to become terrorist. Isn't it true that muslims believe and it is written that if you are a jihadist you will get an endless supply of virgin as you go to heaven. Sex in islam is a kind of reward, isn,t it. Yes gay and lesbian is prohibited in islam but in Saudi Arabia both men fuck each other, they even pay men of other nationalities for them to fuck. That is the true color and hypocrisy of islam.
to mike from nermin
Submitted by nermin on Mon, 2006-01-30 16:17.
You words drip with hatred and animosity and your saying that you used to be a muslim donot fool me Mr.mike…ignoring the problem will not help anything.those people you call extremists are made by your unfairness and your endless support to Israel and your crusade wars and occupation against our countries . it is only recent that we start to hear about those young people who explode themselves . to your knowledge suicide is major sin in islam and who committed suicide will go to hell fire for sure and in hell fire he will repeat his committing suicide in the same method he or she used to kill again an d again.this is one of the hadith of the prophet . do you know it or you just say anything and that is all.can you tell me what are those quran veruses and hadith speaking about women as an object as you claim….yes heaven will be the rewards of any martyrs or soldie who scarify his life for defending his own country, faith and pride..tell me how do you call any soldiers killed in a war.you call him hero, patriot and uSA give now half million dollars to the family of each killed American soldier in iraq.do you deny heaven to the young man who scarified his soul to defend his own land and who depreived from all pleasures in life .do you deny him to go to heaven and enjoy there things he was deprived of..yes women are one of them..why not .god speak to people by the language they understand because they are humans.why you deny th emartyers things you enjoy in your life.it is foolishness when you speak about corrupted men in saudia Arabia or any Islamic country..noone says more than 1.5 billion mulsims are angles or sinless. But this is not at least the mainstream an di snot legitimized in our countries . islam succeeded in making muslims donot drink alcohol ..did you hear about hadith of prophet in which he said it is cursed who drink it, who buy it , who sells it who serve it(the bartender).will you reply to me saying that you seefew muslims drinks….the one who write to you know has never tasted a drop of wine and will never and so her family an dher friends .did you hear about love for other what you love for yourself…it is another hadith of the prophet you dare to speak about.
The prophet mohamd succeeded in making muslims away from adulterous , gayness, abortion,and alcohol..admitt that.ddi not youhear what prince charles says about islam .if you donot I can tell you..do you what Bernard chaw or ghandi or others said about the prophet I can tell you . you did not reply tome why islam is the fast growing religion in the world?...
To Nermin from Karel
Submitted by Karel (not verified) on Fri, 2006-02-03 03:05.
Hi, Nermin, you claim the muslims “led the world and became pioneers in every branch of science, hen they were following islam orders”. I don’t know about which time or period you talk, but from 1100 A.C. on the Islam has reduced the freedom of scientific thinking. Before that time in some areas the Islam world enjoyed a high level of culture: in thinking, sciences, architecture and even pictorial art (specially in Spain). There was a free exchange of ideas with the West and that has benefited the West which was eager to learn, while the Islam world sunk back in to lethargy.
The Arabs, from before and after Mohammed, have been the merchants of goods and ideas: especially from the Chinese and the Indians. The counting in numbers over ten (invention of 0 to indicate the 10) came from the Indians; the printing press and paper fabrication came from the Chinese, and gave Gutenberg the idea for the reinvention. None of them are really Arab inventions.
It were the Westerners who really managed to use the inventions to make them free from Church and Kings and to develop them into the technology in which we all revel. They were able to democratize the knowledge to the benefit of all mankind.
The fields the muslims are active in nowadays are the technical and applied sciences. All the big discoveries of individuals who worked their butts off against all odds (Church and Authorities), have been made by free thinking scientists in a sphere of exchange and competition. Now is it possible to excel in those fields without any interference with religion – the struggles and fights are over and the later generations can reap what they haven’t sowed. But in philosophy and literature I see no muslim faces – for those are the fields where freedom of thought and individual imagination still count. Where is the muslim music – composers and instrumentalist – to make a contribution to the world? They are a rarity! To excel in those things it is necessary to express your innermost personal feelings and ….not in the first place that of a group or a collective.
About the position of the women in the islam world muslims always talk rather glossy: we have to defend their honor, so they stay in the house, but they have to obey their fathers, brothers and husbands. If we hit them, we do it for their own good – not cruelly, but like a correctional soft touch, not in rage. But it is the fox who preaches. It portrays the patronizing attitude to women, as if they have never really grownup. Just imagine a woman talking like that about men – “if they do not listen, I have to slap them to bring reason into their little brains”…..? For the Shari’a /islam is hitting your wife, daughter or sister a legitimate means of correction that stands to the disposal of the man. She is not allowed to leave the marital home without a good reason. A married woman cannot at any time refuse her husband to have sex with her, as long as he doesn’t requires something sinful. She will come in paradise when her husband is content and satisfied by her. This sexual slavery has the purpose to keep the men from adultery, homosexuality ect., according to Al-Ghazaali, the authoritative thinker and composer of the Shari’a , which is still the keystone of almost all modern codifications of personal, family and law of succession. The suggestion too that suicide bomber or freedom fighters will get to his disposal a certain number of virgins is insulting to the honor of women, as if paradise is a whorehouse or oversexed nightclub. This imagery makes women no more than a plaything for men, in stead of human beings with their own will.
I know that in practice a lot of muslims do not eat the soup as hot as it has been served. Just like Catholics they follow not always literally the dictates of the Bible or their popes: they do quietly what is best for them in their circumstances like contraception, family planning, abortions, euthanasia. They won’t hang their view or conduct out in public. They serve lip service to the ideals and avoid discussions about it., to stay out of trouble. For who would dare challenge as a layman or –woman challenge the authority of the mullahs. Hypocrisy is the tool for survival in such circumstances. Muslim scolars who dare to suggest that the Quran (or Coran or Koran) is a human wisdom book written in a historical context will even be persecuted in countries like Egypt – he will be branded as an unbeliever or apostate (which is even worse), what makes his marriage with a muslim wife illegitimate, for it is forbidden to marry with an unbeliever. The man and his family had to be smuggled out of the country to find refuge in Leiden. A muslim cleric who takes it upon him to translate the Quran in another language will be punished and will never get his translation authorized. Who wants to become a muslim has to learn Arabic and learn the suras by heart completely with their official meaning. All translations are from Western scholars of Arabic and purely for that reason untrustworthy, for it says in the Koran: ”We have sent down unto you a Koran in the Arabic language.” All discussions about the possibility of Arabic as a language like all the others with a long history of development are in vain. It has become a creation out of nothing. Suggesting like Rushdie did that – in a difficult moment – Mohammed did water by his wine (figure of speech) and change a sura for a political reason brought hell on earth for him. The Quran could be an invention of Mohammed, but God-given text! Psychological or political considerations or historical context was contradictory to the godly origin of the text.
For a rational western mind this is nonsensical make belief and a westerner will never have any respect for a vision like that. He will shake his head and – given his character – he will keep his mouth shut because he likes you as a human being or…..he will protest when he feels it is forced upon him. The cartoonist is somebody who could not stand it any longer and gave his honest opinion via caricatures. That was his contribution to the discussion. I think he was very brave. If he retracts his cartoons and apologizes, he will merely do it for the oil, to please his gouvernment or to save his livelihood – hypocrisy can be a form of survival.
Regards, Karel
to Normin: I agree with you
Submitted by peace (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 16:42.
to Normin:
I agree with you 100% I thinks people as Mike has no clue what is going in this world and I think he read nothing of Quran.As you said :woman in westren country still struggles with her freedom and indepency, women in westren countries miss the love, the strong relationship with her husband and her kids. Muslim women still keep her money and her family name.I am a muslim and I am the queen of my house who be loved by a wonderful husband and kids.God bless them all.
I think Mike has psychic issue and need treatment I can offer him that because I am a physcian and the treatment is free.
I agree with Nermin
Submitted by W S Gondal (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 17:34.
Nermin I really appreciate the way you are fighting withsome ignorant and mentally sicked people. Such persons like Mike, I can bet doesn't know a word from Holy Quran, even he never opened his own religion book, as he has no respect for the books.
Mr. Mike we as Muslims give respect to other religious books also. Problem with you is that you want to keep on writing without having much knowledge on anything. Sorry Mr. Mike you start reading something, or if you want to write you please write in sense. And whenever you makeup your mind for reading you please start with the word " Respect ". This word alone gives you a lot of beauty to write.
Islam is Alhamdullilah, a comprehensive, complete and the best religion after the day it revealed. Islam always give respect to Christians and the messenger Hazrat Issa ( Jesus Christ ). and for your information I tell you the respect we give to Jesus Christ, you will never be able to give up to that level. So please please if you like your religion and want others to respect it then start giving other religion a "Due" respect. Thanks.
Mentally sicked
Submitted by Bob Doney on Mon, 2006-01-30 18:10.
Nermin I really appreciate the way you are fighting withsome ignorant and mentally sicked people.
Well, I don't. For people who claim to respect others, there seems to be a lot a personal abuse flying about.
I for one am not going to listen to any point of view accompanied by insults. It's very offensive.
Bob Doney
The CRUSADES ??!!
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 17:45.
But they happened CENTURIES AGO !!!
Why bother?
Submitted by Marc Schaufelberger (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 14:37.
Why do people get so excited about somthing that has no physical proof. Religions are based on words said by people over 2000 years ago, these words were 'interpreted' by people afterwards and turned into rules. How can people follow such things blindly. They are none exsistant. in the end we will all be islamic, or dead. Thats the way the world is going. You cant negociate with people that put their 'faith' ahead of the european laws. people need to start being more firm instead of always bowing down to people that are 'minorities'.
Mohamedans Just Don't Get It
Submitted by John Sobieski (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 06:02.
The West makes fun of EVERYTHING. Religion isn't special. Besides Islam isn't a religion. It's a cult created by a neurotic pedophile. A claptrap ideology of stupidity. Now that is something to laugh at.
to john from nermin
Submitted by nermin on Mon, 2006-01-30 16:32.
you say religion is not special in the west.ok i know that but it is special to us and you should as the civilized people you claim to respect that.....you are sitting there where you sit an dsaying foolishly that islam is not a religion....so what is islam mr ignorant and what is the religion in your opinion if not islam..is it that religion that secreted those corrupted priests and nuns. i feel pity for you and i donot blame you for leaving churchs and abandoning its religion because you tried it for centuries and made you live and ensalved in dark centuries and when you thow it away you were able to stand on your feel and make adavnacment.but the contray is true regarding islam .when muslim were following islam orders ,they led the world and became pioneers in every branch of science....it comfort you more to hate islam than to know about it..read before yo speak Mr John.islamis teh religion of univeristy stuffs and great thinkers and intellecuals world wide.wake up
Muhammed (peace be upon him)
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 06:16.
A man who used to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil is not a neurotic pedophile, my friend. A man who stopped the crazy practice the arabs used to have of female infanticide is not a neurotic pedophile my friend. A man who was always kind and respectful to everyone he met, including children, is not a neurotic pedophile, my friend. A man who had the qualities that we perceive as modest and honorable and truthful and pious is not a neurotic pedophile my friend. This man who was blessed with the message of God, just as the prophets Abraham, Moses, and Jesus before him, is not a neurotic pedophile, my friend. He is the prophet Muhammad, the last prophet sent to all mankind, may God's peace and blessings be upon him. May God Guide you to the straight path, my friend.
Europe, what are you doing?
Submitted by Ray (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 03:45.
Europe, what are you doing? The cartoon ordeal should teach you a lesson! Why do you continue to allow these primitives to enter your countries?
Stop it now, or you will never will be able to.
to this ray from nermin( muslims are not primitive)
Submitted by nermin on Mon, 2006-01-30 18:26.
Go and see what are the jobs and careers those people (muslims) you call primitive occupy. If they were not better educated, harder worker than the native people of the country they live in they would not have the opportunity to live or to work. Go to Uk and you will find that half the doctors in hospitals are from India and Pakistan and a lot of them are muslims. The primitive is the arrogant person who speaks about things he doesnot know anything about..it is well known that germany welcomed muslims from turkey, france welcomed those from north Africa, Uk welcomed those from Pakistan to help in building after second world war.
from nermin to whoever ask about churches in islamic countries
Submitted by nermin on Mon, 2006-01-30 18:49.
To whom ask about churches in Islamic or Arabic countries…donot you know that the most ancient churchs are present in Arabic countries.in Egypt and in occupied Palestine..the key of the cuddle church is still till now with a muslim family in jerusalem with all the respect since the muslims freed this land from the roman more than 1400 years ago.muslims respect all divine religions and no churches are destroyed by muslims and the proof are all those historical churchs in our countries..what I want to ask you about is where all the beautiful mosques the muslims built while they spent more than 700years in spains…all of them are destroyed and the few they kept due to its beautiful architecture are converted to church with its original Islamic design. if you go to spain you will see the broken crescent replaced by the cross. muslims and jews were forced to change their names if they want to continue living in spain, that is why the jews fled to north africa to live n peace with the muslims.And when you speak about Christians rights in Islamic countries, tell me about the banning of veils in French schools and what the harm a girl covering her hair will make to a great country like France.
To nermin
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 00:34.
As I said, the difference is in the road which Europe took in the 16th and 17th centuries--developing a few very important changes: the birth of national states, and with it, the division of powers within this state. This accelerated the already developing concepts of civil rights and Humanism. This was the most profound difference between Europe and the rest of the world.
We had also something VERY important: theology which INTERPRETED the Bible. The Bible is NOT, and practically cannot, always be taken word for word, or literally. This Freedom allows the Bible to be adapted to the modern world, which--for better and worse--is NOTHING like the world was then. This does not seem to be the case with the Koran. The Koran is presumably quite near the original text. You say it's original, but Mohammed had a cousin, who LOVED the Bible...and he taught it to the illiterate Mohammed. When Mohammed's cousin died, Mohammed dictated what he had been taught and named it the Koran. That's why it looks so similar to the Bible. As I know, the Holy Bible is neither totally original. But this is the difference. I CAN criticize the Bible, theology, priests--you don't. It would be against God. We already know what happened to Rushdie, right? About churches in the East...yes, there WERE a few communities. The majority of Palestinians, after WWII, were Christians--and persecuted by every surrounding Arab nation. They didn't have a nation anymore! Thanks to our very myopic politic (the champion of it now is the USA). They are all now Islamic, and they even voted Hamas, thanks to us...in the very end. BUT, as I said before, and I repeat now... The fact that we are writing about this, about 12 sketches of Mohammed, is already the proof by itself of all I have written. We can do that with Jesus! The two worlds have a cultural separation of four centuries, and it's not our duty to give up the freedom that our ancestors have fought for for us, giving their lives for...So, in Rome as Romans do. We have constitutions, and if Islam says something different, I am sorry. If islam says that you have to cover your hair... and if it's the case, that national law says something different.. you don't cover you'r head. If it's offensive, there is nothing you can do, nor i want to hear any islamic schovinism about it. If the law alouds you to do it, by all means!
By the way, the divorcing
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 2006-01-31 00:53.
By the way, the divorcing was allready in use at rome, 2500 years ago.
And stop inventing about women rigths in islam. Where islam is dictating the law, girls can't even go to school.. and divorsing.. let me laught!!!
There's no comparing on civil rights between western world and muslim world, as long as ajatollah can dictate on national laws. Just don't dream that can ever hapen here.
I wish i didn't offend anybody, and hope to everybody a tranquile night!
from nermin(prince albert and diana ) can anyone reply tome
Submitted by nermin on Thu, 2006-02-02 20:56.
In Uk after princess Diana death, they outrage on the media an d the press and wanted to make laws which save the personal life of celebrities and royal family members ..
In france recently prince albert f monaco sued paris match mazasien for publishing a true story about his secret son and he won the case and the magazine apologized in its front page in the same place where it published the same true story about him before .not only this but the magazine will pay him money as compensation(The prince successfully sued Paris Match for invasion of privacy, and last week the magazine was fined €50,000 in damages, plus costs) Q.f.the guardian. …
For whoever want to get assured see thi s link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1521232,00.html
so there is no absolute freedom of speech as you all claim….
So can anyone tell me where is the freedom of speech here..is not France is present in Europe tooo or is it transferred and we donot know..
Again double standard measures and genuine hate and arrogance toward anything which is related to islam and muslims..
Can any one reply to me
Freedom of press
Submitted by Karel on Thu, 2006-02-09 21:21.
Dear Nermin, you must know by now that freedom of press has some limitations in the West. Facts about somebody's private life (even if they are proven to be true) cannot be published on pain of punishment, if they are not in the general interest. If this private details concern people who are living in the public eye, like film stars or royalty, you cannot pry into their family life just for the fun of it. You have to give them a life. Kate Moss's cocaine habit was displayed by a journalist because it had implications for the whole mannequin world. She was a role model!
Publications who happen to be untrue and slanderous and could be damaging for lives and carreers, can and will be brought for the courts and the perpetraters will be brought to justice.
Mohammad is no living person and is above our petty criticism, so nothing can really hurt him. Of course it could hurt his followers if people say untrue things about him. In that last case repetition of blamable actions or expressions can be forbidden and punishable - if beyond any doubt is proven that they are factual wrong and hurtful. For that reason is publicly denying the fact of the holocaust punishable. Pointing at a connection between Mohammad/quran and terrorism cannot be punishable, because the terrorist themselves base their actions on the the holy texts. Is Mohammad (as the perfect messenger from Allah) so mixed-up in his message that anybody could interprete it either way: for acts of terrorisme AND of peace and tolerance??!!
That is the billion dollar question the clerics should clarify with undisputable single-mindedness.
The brouhaha about the cartoonist would stop immediately if there came an unmistakenly clear and simple answer. Only then could you successfully take the cartoonists to court, just like when anybody would dare to publish idiotic assertions about the holocaust.
Regards, Karel
to karel from nermin
Submitted by nermin on Thu, 2006-02-09 21:50.
I kept saying allover that freedom of pres has its should have its limits an d i gave so many example about prince of Monaco recent case and princess Diana…but with no comment from anyone here.
Again for the million of times I say that if we just judge Christianity or Judaism from the attitudes of their followers the result will be awful and not for their sake for sure.
The west insists on sticking every thing bad to islam and the 1.5 billion Muslims based on attitudes of some individuals who are condemned and not supported by any religious authority or country. I said before that ben laden has been stripped from his Saudi nationality .what do u want more than that?. All Islamic countries denied 11/9 immediately. what do u want more than that?.
Also we and u cannot ignore that all these actions from those individuals you dislike are only recent and u chose to ignore what made them do that…
Ignoring the problems will never solve anything…and stubbornness will bring more resistance and violence.
Try to put yourselves even for a little times in the place of Palestinians or Iraqis or afghan people and try to think how is the feeling of all Arabic nations and Muslims worldwide.
You cannot assume that 1.5 billions are angles with cold blood.
When London bomb occurred .the English abandoned their cold nerves and killed one brazilin poor man because he looked like Arabic while there was no need for that as the man was in their grasp. in the grasp of about 6 police man. also English killed a Pakistani man walking in street for no reason. two English group one of them called himself white knight that declared that its aim is to eradicate England from Muslims ( who are about 2 millions ,most of them are working in respected careers ).but here it is ,when they just taste attack against them they turned into extremist people.
Try to think and put yourself in others place..
I am with free media which aim to benefit the public and reveal them social problems and analyze work of any politician but to provoke people for no reason intended ,this is not allowed.
Prophet Mohamed is dead to you but not to us .also , we are not responsible for anyone who use quran as he likes..look to bush and ramsfild who says god ordered them to go to iraq and you are all silent.
I challenge u to read quran and find any versus speak about aggression .i said here before that there is a versus in quran which is not present in any other holy books in which allah says, whoever makes one living soul alive as if he makes all souls and who killes one living soul as if he killed all living souls.
Prophet Mohammad that u don't like said who ever Muslim hurt a jew or Christian he( the prophet) will defend and will be on the side of that non muslim in the day of resurrection.
What do u want more than that.
I hope to hear from u now
The awful legacy of christianity
Submitted by Karel on Sun, 2006-02-12 02:38.
Hello, Nermin, the difference between Christianity and Islam is that the holy books have a completely different character. The bible is not written by Jesus, whereas the Quran is more or less from the hand of Mohammad. So it was and is easier to doubt the content and the meaning of what is written in the Bible: the Christian believers can put the words and deeds from Jesus and his apostles in a historical context and bring the message up to date. Only the bible-belt Christians to which Bush belongs stick to the literal wording of the bible texts and as a consequence protest against women emancipation, abortion, sex before marriage,, homosexuality ( nurture and not nature), science (they believe the earth is just 5000 years old and Adam and Eve with their paradise really existed!) and independent thinking. Love and affection only exist among fellow believers and everybody who is critical or rejects the literal truth of their bible, is a threat and must be eliminated – they are not your neighbors but ‘liberals’ who must be harassed and hunted down. They cannot accept that they are and remain just ‘sinners’ like the rest of us – no, when you are a converted sinners, saved by the Lord, you become sort of immune for mistakes, for you are blessed with the only possible truth. This kind of blind belief makes the adherents such enthusiastic missionaries, crusaders, incapable of simple human kindness towards people who are not of their type of Christians or –worse – no Christians at all. There is not and cannot be any happiness outside their belief, because mortal humans are not capable of anything good and inclined to all evil. Happiness and joy outside their belief is suspicious.
By his conversion to this type of belief (by Billy Graham) Bush knew how to tap into a massive section of evangelical Christians who until now never voted during elections, for the leaders of the world were in their eyes messengers of Satan. Bush and his monkeys managed to convince them that he wanted to advance their ideas in politics (Look at the list above) and so they gave him his majority, with a little help of cheating and fraud of his evil cronies like Cheney and Karl Rove. It is very doubtful , whether anybody who has people like this as his helpers, could be a real Christian. Bush is a catastrophe for his own people and the rest of the world. Why being open and honest towards the world of nations, the united nations, if you know you are right and have the god given right to do what you have to do, irrespective of what others, liberals and dissidents, want. The end justifies the means. To his disappointment in Iraq things did not go his way and the world found out how he manipulated facts and fancies to attack that country. Don’t forget he is the son of a family of great wealth (weapon industry and oil), tightly linked to the big corporations, who are in control of a lot of media, education and the banks. It is this dangerous mix of corporate business and reactionary and hypocritical bigotry what makes him such a success, especially since he still has not lost his smooth peptalk of his playboy years.
NB: if you really want to know what a really Christian attitude could/should be, you should read the review of Jimmy Carter’s book “Our Endangered Values” in Jimmy Carter & the Culture of Death by Garry Wills in the New York Review of Books, of January 2006.
So, Nermin, being for free speech and agreeing with the publication of the cartoons does not immediately imply that you also agree with America’s invasion in Iraq or Israel’s occupation of Palestine, for that matter.
Christianity has a lot to answer for since it came into power: eliminating the Gnostic sects around 350 A.C (who told different stories about Jesus than the Roman Catholic Church, which wanted to spread only one version of the ‘truth’), murdering and torturing Muslims and Jews during the Crusades from 1095 until 1295, destroying around 3 million Kathars in the south of Europe during 1200 until 1300, burning alive every heretic (dissident) until 1500, killing uncountable numbers of Jews in Europe in pogroms (because the Church preached that the Jews had betrayed and murdered Jesus - Hitler harvested that hatred over centuries and knew he had the churches behind him when he rounded the Jews up where he found them and put them into concentration camps). The Jews looking for a safe place after the Holocaust where 6 million of them died in the gas-ovens of the Nazis, claimed Palestine as their god-given birth-right since the Romans in 73 A.C. demolished Jerusalem and kicked all the Jews out of their homeland. For centuries they had prayed that one day they would return to their promised land, so they did not want to recognize the fact that there were already inhabitants – the Palestinians. The Jews/Israelis were so traumatized by the history of ages of persecution that they were blind for the suffering of the Palestinians, who were now as dispossessed of their land and belongings as they had been because of the WO II. Especially the religious Jews in Israel held/hold stubbornly on to the fiction that they are the true inheritors of Palestine on the basis of their Holy Book, whereas the liberal secular Jews dare not go against the religious fanatics among them.
Nermin, I better end this ‘lecture’ here, otherwise it will become a never ending story. About Mohammad as a man of peace and the quran as the book of non-aggression I will answer you the next time to the best of my ability.
Regards, Karel
I did reply (on monday I
Submitted by grumpy on Wed, 2006-02-08 14:55.
I did reply (on monday I think). This is at least the 4th time you post this. What is the idea? Take a break. Disable the "cut and paste" functions on your computer.
Absolute freedom
Submitted by Bob Doney on Thu, 2006-02-02 22:25.
so there is no absolute freedom of speech as you all claim….
Can any one reply to me
I haven't seen anyone here claim there is absolute freedom of speech. Every society puts limits on free speech. But how much freedom of speech do YOU think there should be, Nermin?
And do you think it's right for people to respond with guns and threats to something that's been drawn on a piece of paper? You insist that people reply to you, so can you reply to me?
Bob Doney
to Mr Bob
Submitted by nermin on Wed, 2006-02-08 19:20.
no Mr Bob, everyone here is saying freedom of speech is absolute in europe an dtaht is why ia m keepinh asking for reply about manythings with no logic answers...
aslo i said many times , that ia m against death threats or burning of embassies or even injury of anyon e,simply because islam morals forbids those and islam is always with wisdom .
but iam with boycotting an dthissi th eleast we can do..but as you saw people here complain from burning of danish flags which is a piece of cloth burnt by all people worldwide as protest.i said too clinton burnt his own flag to protest his country war agaisnt vitnam..but noone reply with logic words .
also i said that if america prevented the americans famer from selling american wheat to iraq till maerican farmers protested saying wheat willnot make weaopns ..
why all these atack against boycotting?.
donot say ...they did not.
thes ewas th e words before burning of embassies
reply this
Submitted by Pessimist on Thu, 2006-02-09 21:57.
Dear Nermin, dear any muslim, reply to this:
160 000 Christian killed in islamic countries last year.
We are not perfeckt, i know.
But, it's time to us to remember that all the insults, the chritianity is taking, there's nobody apoligysing us.
160 000 KILLED! not 12 pictures of beloved muhammad.
It s time to us to stop immagining having a dialog whit a civilization even close to us, and definitely NOT tollerant.
We have to insist on our laicist values, and accept only those as only possible social mesure, above everything.. even muhammed.
to Pessimist pure lies
Submitted by nermin on Thu, 2006-02-09 22:08.
i challange u to bring me any proof for what u say....on contrary go and ask coptic church where are the christians women who are converted to islam last year..where are they now..they are prisoners under teh ground in one of the deserted churches in the desert.
ask about them.
aslo ask about thecd that coptic church made inside the thechurch insulting islam and its prophet and distributed it in universities .
saying that that number ws skilled is pure lies.
teh coptic went to sharon and bush agaisnt their own country because one women converted to islam an dtehy wanted it and so they took it .against all country laws and agaisnt all laws.
mr, coptic and eastern church still live in dark ages u kew in europe.
so stop thes e nonsense
Sue me,don't kill me
Submitted by LoPull on Thu, 2006-02-02 21:06.
I'd rather be sued for libel or defamation for saying something about someone than killed because I offended someones ideas of the "proper life".
The thing you are doing right Nermin,right now right here...that's FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
Remind us again WHERE are you posting from? I bet it's NOT Pakistan, Iran, Saudia Arabia, Lybia, Egypt, or Palestine. Name one Islamic country where you could say anything out in the open and not end up dead or beaten?
LoPull is right
Submitted by Anonymous11 (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 21:21.
"that's FREEDOM OF SPEECH"
Exactly, but a disconcerting number of posters say stuff like this guy:
"your freedom of exprssion is valid until you dont touch my nose. if you touch it, then you have violated your rights."
Nope!
Offending someone does NOT mean exceeding the boundaries of freedom of speech!
It's freedom OF speech, not freedom FROM speech. Freedom of speech is exactly what gives us the RIGHT to offend, meaning that we are entitled to criticize others. Even our governments and religions.
That said, freedom of speech is rarely absolute and is usually regulated by laws. This means that defamation, libel, slander and often racism and blasphemy are FORBIDDEN.
So if you feel wronged in some way, by the Muhammed cartoons for instance, report the matter to the POLICE so the courts can decide on a fitting punishment; if any.
to Lopoll from nermin
Submitted by nermin on Thu, 2006-02-02 21:19.
have yu checked the link yourself...ok make alws which incriminate mocking religious symbols or chracters and we will sue you...in italy thereis a law which prevent appearance of of the cross in public places...now the leader of italian muslims league is in jail for 10 months because he removed teh cross from the hospital room of his sick mother ...so you donot respect the laws you set if it concer islam...donot you ....but still you didnot reply to the bottom of what i posted about prince an d princess . personally,i agree with diana case but not with albert
Free Speech
Submitted by pbswatcher (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 03:13.
I am concerned by the capitulation of the Danish newspaper. Based on the state of free speech in Europe as exemplified by the French homophobia case and the Italian "prove Christ existed" case, I expect that the Brussels Journal will be forced to remove its reporting and the cartoons. To guard against such an eventuality, I have taken the liberty of republishing the cartoons and all of the Brussels Journal thread on this topic. I urge all bloggers who value free speech to do the same. Let us use the distributed power of the internet to defeat this attempt by theocracy to muzzle free speech.
See http://pbswatch.blogspot.com/2006/01/farenheit-451-alert.html
Cartoons of Muhammad
Submitted by Thomas the Wraith (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 02:32.
In an effort to support the Danish cartoonists I have drawn my own little Muhammad cartoons. Nothing obscene or pornographic. Soft Muhammad is a cartoon of the founder of Islam as a rather effete, nancy-boy. Hellfire Muhammad: the name says it all.
I encourage others to draw their own cartoons. If 12 cartoons pissed off Islamists around the world, imagine what an internet filled with hundreds or thousands of cartoons will do.
Mr. thomas has no idea about
Submitted by W S Gondal (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 08:02.
Mr. thomas has no idea about the Creator of the World 'GOD', about his messengers and due respect a Human has to give them. I think such people don't know the values what a society teaches.
My friend this is the first lesson Islam gives to all Mankind . So to draw such images are not the creations but show about yourself. so you took oppertunity to introduce yourselt to everybody, now everybody knows that what sort of person you are.
Pathetic
Submitted by Ethnocentrist on Mon, 2006-01-30 01:32.
I commend the Danes that they held out so long, yet they did cave in at the end. Didn't they? This does not bode well for freedom of speech in Europe.
What's even more pathetic are the two Muslims who wrote in to the Brussels Journal. Overt and no-so-subtle threats would land any European in a world of trouble if it was us who wrote those letters. Yet, nothing would ever happen to these two even if they hand delivered them. The hypocrisy is astounding. "We're peaceful, but we'll kill you". Utterly unbelievable.
Thank you Brussel Journal
Submitted by Dewi Sudarsono (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 02:23.
We all have to stand up in support of the Danish and against the muslim interference into the internal afairs of an independent country and member of the UN.
Freedom of speech is extremely important achievement which we all have to defent. It was Theo vanGogh in the Netherlands who was ritually slaughtered by the muslims because also he exercised his right to freedom of speech
I want to thank brusselsjournal.com to have the cartoons published on this, personally I have done the same on my website http://alter-of-democracy.be and I call on website owners all over Europe to do likewise. It is true that it will not be a rosegarden as also I have received a number of deathtreats from muslims.
But I think that is small price to pay if our liberties are at stake.
Muslims value freedom of speech
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 06:10.
Muslims too value freedom of speech a great deal; western societies are almost the only place Muslims are allowed freedom of speech. Voicing our opinions in order to better society is something that every human cherishes, irrespective of what religion we belong to. The reason Muslims feel the need to stand up against this act is simply because it was one of the dying wishes of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) that he should not be depicted in anything lest people should start worshipping him as the Arabs used to worship idols. Standing up against these cartoons is simply our duty as Muslims to "enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil" as Muslims are constantly reminded in Islam. Just as the cartoons were an expression of your freedom of speech, so is our indignation and rallying a part of our freedom of religion and speech.
Muslims don't know what is
Submitted by Helen (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 06:30.
Muslims don't know what is free speech. Making a song and dance over a cartoon?!?! Are you guys idiots that you would start worshipping a cartoon!?! Here's a suggestion: stand up against rape and abuse of women; against the rape, kidnapping, and forced conversion of Christian women in Egypt and Iraq and elsewhere; against suicide bombing; against wanton murder of Jews; against the hateful and despicable rhetoric that Muslims have used against Jews, Christians, Hindus, or anybody who does not believe as you do. You guys strain at a gnat but you swallow a camel.
wake up
Submitted by pease (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 08:59.
I think what ever you mentioned are actions happen in your westren culture.
Do you know how many rapes every minutes happen in your free country ?
do you know how many battered women in the emergency rooms seen everyday?!!!.do you know how many kids be molested @ the churchs @ your decent schools ?!!!! .
Do you know how many women been sexully abused every minutes ?.
If you don't know I suggest for you to go and educate yourself Idiot!!!!!By the way Have you been abused as kid ? I think so
a muslim woman and I am proud of it .
Free country
Submitted by Bob Doney on Mon, 2006-01-30 10:34.
Do you know how many rapes every minutes happen in your free country ?
Well, yes, we know and you know, because we are allowed to know. Because we live in free countries. Because we elect the governments that collect and publish statistics and information about these sorts of issues. How is it in your country?
Bob Doney
Answer to Helen
Submitted by W S Gondal (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 08:34.
If I start with, what a Muslim knows, then it may takes years. So in my short answer I can not explain what you simply wrote without knowing about the Religion and its followers.
Second thing which you mentioned as 'Suggestion" then let me tell you one thing that, Islam condemn all sorts of those indecent acts which you mentioned to stand against. This is basic teaching of Islam, we don't stand only the physicall indecent acts but verbal also. So I will enlist that cartoonist in the same people who spread unrest among the group of people or in the soceities. I can not spare him also.
The best response now would
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 01:25.
The best response now would be for a Western television company to commission a serious documentary on the life of Mohammed. No attempt should made to either deliberately offend Muslims or promote Islamic pseudo-history.
The best response now would be
Submitted by Karel on Wed, 2006-02-08 13:44.
There is a frustrated unease among muslims about the link between terrorist's actions and quran texts. It is far easier to target Danish cartoonists on blasphemy than to refute the terrorist's claims on the quran to justify their behaviour. The anger towards the cartoonist is a diversion from what the cartoonist really pointed out - the quran and Mohammad legitimate deadly attacks and threads on people who openly disagree with the islam and its commandments. Mohammad himself made it absolutely clear to leaders and kings during his lifetime that they had no other option than to die or surrender "Aslem, Taslam!"
The silent majority of peacefully inclined muslims rather suppress this unpleassant truth by voicing their anger towards the West and the cartoonists.
I strongly agree with you,
Submitted by Mostafa (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 15:04.
I strongly agree with you, being a muslim I have been heavily offended by these cartoons.
Especially that these drawings created by people know nothing about Muhamed(PBUH).
Awarness is a step in the right direction.
The best response
Submitted by Helen (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 06:39.
Why should the West waste valuable time on Mohammed or worry about offending Muslims? All the West has to do is exist and Muslims are offended. Who cares about the other million and one things that cause them offense? Co-existing peacefully means that you don't get in a hyper-snit every time the scent of a fart blow across your nose. The point of all this Muslim hyperventilating is simple: force dhimmi status on the West. Once the West accepts that, it's but a short road to accepting global dominance of Islam. I'd prefer that Islamic peoples grow up and learn to develop thicker skins.
The best response now would
Submitted by Ethnocentrist on Mon, 2006-01-30 01:37.
The best response now would be for a Western television company to commission a serious documentary on the life of Mohammed. No attempt should made to either deliberately offend Muslims or promote Islamic pseudo-history.
What for? Why on earth should this be done? It is quite clear that Islam (the religion of peace) is intolerant of any criticism or diversion from the Quran. I know all there is to know about it and its prophet. Appeasement will accomplish nothing!
An independent paper in a
Submitted by Karsten (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 00:44.
An independent paper in a free and democratic country "justifies itself" to a family run dictatorship? The only thing that they need to say to Saudia Arabia is "STFU"
One Way Streets
Submitted by FdeFda (not verified) on Mon, 2006-01-30 01:21.
Do Saudis respect other faiths? Check out the official Wahabi khutbah from Mecca.
http://www.alminbar.com/
Type "Jews,"Christians," "enemies" in their "Search" function. A Danish cartoonist doesn't have the fatwah authority of Saud appointed clerics. Who do I protest to?
Thank you
Submitted by Emerald (not verified) on Sun, 2006-01-29 22:46.
Following a Google search I just happened to find your journal after an Austrian newspaper ("Die Presse") reported on the "Danish Cartoon Problem" today in a rather sketchy way.
I find it hard to believe that the publication of a few harmless cartoons was followed by such an unbelievable outrage by Muslim states, organisations etc. In my opinion, this simply proves the already well-known fact that even the not-so-radical variations of Islam are based on intolerance towards the Western libertarian society and will never be able to co-exist with values such as freedom of speech and freedom of press.
Many thanks for the detailed coverage of the affair, excellent work.
Disgraceful
Submitted by Rukhsar (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 11:23.
Hi, Firstly and Finally i want to say how rude are some people, who dont know how to respect other religions, i just wonder how much they respect their own, if we wanted to, we could have made pictures which offended your religion so much your might a well decide to commit suicide. But you see the Islamic teachings once again do not allow us to do so. I am trying my best not to be rude but at the ssame time get my point across to you non-muslims. If you do want to criticise Anything, always do your research first, dont be so dumb and draw anything you want, first of all this is not a matter of freedom as the prophet Muhammed has not stopped you from being free, so why be so immature and do something which you know will harm yourself and your surroundings. Finally thanks to people like you countries like France and Germany are reprinting such ill,mannered and good for nothing pictures. You don't know what the prophet looked like so you have no right to make the pictures in the first place!!!!
Dsigraceful
Submitted by Karel (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 16:28.
Hi, firstly: thank you Rukhsar, for your reacting on my response. Let me enlighten you on the spelling of your holy book. Every country and language has his own way of lettering it: Koran (Dutch), Coran (English) and your way of trying to capture the sounds - Quran.
Tell me one thing: why should anyone respect religion (any), if religion wants to dictate them to obey in something they do not believe in? Doen't 'islam' mean just that: submission. obey, surrender!!?? How can you talk about freedom? That's "Pax Arabica": freedom for the people who belong to the same tribe and stay in line. So do not eat pork, do not make pictures of Mohammed or Allah, don't show your face or hair or other innocent bodyparts, drink no alcohol (the arabs brought us the viticulture, before they started to renounce it to themselves - thank 'god', a figure of speech!). For a muslim it seems an imcomprehensible statement to hear (or read) that somebody wants to have nothing to do with religion (point blank, basta!). Being an atheist or humanist is the fundament of our existence - all the rest is magic, myths, inventions - projections of an irrational state of mind. What is freedom, if beforehand you have to obey to so many rules and conditions? That's making the world in a kind of kindergarten of eternal immature creatures!
Nobody knows what Jezus or Mohammed looked like - in a time without cameras it cannot be helped. The mind/imagination is free and it does not matter if it looks alike the real thing.
Karel
for rukhsar
Submitted by Distant (not verified) on Thu, 2006-02-02 11:32.
please do make pictures of that nature. we look forward to seeing them. In fact, I think I can guarantee that Jyllands-Posten will publish them.
They certainly cant have less artistic merit, social commentary, or humour than some of the cartoons that were published. (see, I agree with you about the immaturity. This is like a playground dispute: one person is being immature, so the best thing to do is ignore them.)
Disrespectful Cartoons
Submitted by Sarah Riham (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 21:27.
In reply to Emerald's email, it's difficult to see how the cartoons in question could be described as "harmless". Rather, decency and moral values would categorize them as ínsensitive if not provocative. Tolerance and freedom of speech do not disregard what others honor and hold as sacred. Tolerance and freedom of speech respect the beliefs of others with all that that entails. If Muslims feel strongly about portraying their prophet, "the Western libertarian society" it seems to me should, in the spirit of tolerance and freedom it so often talks of, respect that tradition.
Disrespectful Cartoons 2
Submitted by Joergen (not verified) on Wed, 2006-02-01 22:45.
You can't talk of a muslim tradition in Denmark. when I was born there wern't any muslims in Denmark. The cartoons were published in Denmark for a Danish audience. They are completly in a Danish tradition. The Tradition of making fun of Religion.
to Joergen from nermin
Submitted by nermin on Thu, 2006-02-02 11:28.
you keep saying that th e danish newspaper published the cartoons for its danish people not for muslims ..what a silly fool words.are those words convince a child
What a Smart Traditions
Submitted by Aman on Thu, 2006-02-02 02:54.
So you make fun of religions; very smart