Tolerant Xenophobes

From the desk of George Handlery on Mon, 2009-02-23 07:40

bj-logo-handlery.gif

George Handlery about the week that was. Credit today, tax burden tomorrow. The attack that never was. PC vs. reason. How to avoid threatening victory. Obama's charisma and the magic's limits. The General's dedication.
 
1. We tolerate the abusive misuse of adjectives. Terms such as „Nazi," „Fascists„, „racist", are thrown around with the abandon of a kindergarten's snow-ball fight. The following shall illustrate the misuse of abusive terms. Newly I can vote in Switzerland. Therefore, I joined the SVP (founded in 1919). At best, it is labeled in the foreign press as xenophobic. Recently, I attended in my first local assembly of members. My friend, Rico, a local physician, introduced me. By opening my mouth, I betrayed the fact that I am not be native to Swiss German - which Germans do not understand to the extent that Swiss films are subtitled for them. Furthermore, while the Swiss write in High German, they do not like to speak it. Most people here are rather handicapped in German as it is a foreign language learned in school. Hardly seated, the chairman approached me. Do I want the meeting to be held in German? My passive command of the language being perfect, I asked that, by all means, we should use „Schwitzertütsch". After that, it took a moment to realize that the episode tells much about the charge of yahoo nativism. In fact, the SVP is not at all against „foreigners". What it is against is, besides big government, criminality. This position is held resolutely, regardless of whether culprits are indigenous or foreign. Me think that the smeared SVP deserves the apology it will not get.

2. A matching event permit's the continuation of the theme of generalized xenophobia and the ritualistic defense of the guilty provided that they are foreign. Last week (02. 09.) a Brazilian female with a law degree, called the police. She claimed that Nazis have assaulted her in Zurich's main station. The assailants have engraved several „SVPs" on her skin. The shock made her to abort her twins. Brazil's media and government, but also the local Consul, have reacted in a frenzy. (This writer had suspicions. Genuine extremists would mark the victim with a swastika but hardly with „SVP.") Soon some problems emerged. The lady did not abort twins. She could not do so because she was not pregnant. The many markings, actually scratches, are in places the victim could reach. Furthermore, no „skins" were sighted in the area of the alleged attack. There is more. The lady seems to intend to petition for the right to stay in Switzerland.

 

Meanwhile, Brazil is retreating from its outrage, although, reportedly, some still regurgitate the PC-conform convenient story of abuse. The lady's father also spins the case: no matter what, his daughter is a victim. Either of an attack or of psychological problems. Pray tell, the first alternative having evaporated in the heat of the unmerciful facts, why is Switzerland responsible for the mental derangement of an adult attorney. (In case, you did not know: in some countries, a law degree is very easy to get..) The newest: According to the Brazilian Consul here, by the weekend the „victim's" wounds have healed and she can leave the hospital. Brazil considers an apology provided that it is proven that the woman -she has confessed- has not been the victim of an attack. Meanwhile, local justice is taking action for her attempt to dupe the authorities.

3. Political correctness demands that we suspend, ignore and act against common sense, morality and the organically evolved norms of our society.

4. There are those who stubbornly oppose any action -military or political- if taken by the USA to confront the modern world's enemies. These detractors now concentrate on Iraq and are about to shift their outrage to Afghanistan. Accordingly, Iraq is the first „quagmire" to be abandoned before the threat of victory can materialize. To improve the case, Afghanistan is rather unmentioned. So far. Its turn will accompany the withdrawal from Iraq. This will be anything but easy in view of the moment's silent consensus that Afghanistan is „OK" while Iraq is „wrong".

5. A worrisome aspect of Obama's policy toward Russia is based on a suspicion. The president could be misled by his success abroad. Thus he might come to think that, he can charismatically enthuse Russia's rulers for his person, the same way and extent he gained the approval of western Europe's masses. One needs to realize that the crew in the Kremlin is not identical with the man in the street. Moreover, the Russians are (sometimes to their advantage) not western Europeans.

6. February 5th. A section of the French Communist Party (Revolutionary Communist League) has declared its dissolution. Right away, the macro-party reconstituted itself as the Anticapitalist Party. Having the C -word in their name appeared to be an avoidable disadvantage.

7. The populations of advanced countries are used to good times. Since 1945, one only needed to push the cart downhill or, at worst, on a level road. The current crisis is, therefore, unexpectedly severe and unprecedented. Consequently, the confused reaction is, given the missing experience and the lack of public affairs knowledge, to be expected. At the same time, the state's ability to „overcome" is proving to be limited. Bad reactions and mistaken policies might be the result. Accordingly, today's credits will mute to become tomorrow's debt expressed by higher taxes.

8. „Do not Blame President Obama" is the title of an essay in the Intellectual Conservative where this column's American version is also posted. (February 14.) The writer finds "The simple truth is that no president can pull an economy out of recession or guarantee conditions of prosperity". Indeed, not the ex candidate deserves the blame for the insinuations he used to be elected. It is the voter that did not know any better who is responsible.

9. More about „voting wrong". Today's Venezuelan dateline (02. 16.) serves as an illustration. Firmly believing in something for nothing and also in repeated free lunches coupled to payments for the invited, Venezuela voted to abolish term-limits for Chavez. Lifetime presidencies have a sad record in South America. Therefore, the voter' subjective stay in the „permanent present" is proven. Pity the large minority that knew enough to vote against life-long socialist dictatorship. It is of small comfort that there will continue to be elections in Venezuela. The longer Chavez is in power the worse conditions will become, and the more he will be able to falsify returns. Only running out of oil or of life offers the country some hope. While waiting for that, be prepared for the arrival for the country's elite of competence fleeing persecution.

10. The positive reception of the Stauffenberg film (Operation Valkyrie) - or possibly of Tom Cruise in any role - has triggered this re-call. A recent weekend in the company of a member of that family enforced the inclination. The film, as well as the incident to be told here, has to do with the contemporaries' paralysis to act against Hitler in the closing phase of WW2. My little peace also tells about the difference between public positions and real convictions.  Not many years ago, I helped someone to organize old pictures. One showing a General of the Wehrmacht in a formal pose caught my attention. The dedication was from 1944. The text ran something like „In devoted friendship and with the unshakeable belief in the Final Victory, your General X." Rather clear-cut you might think. The actual background makes the matter „anything but". The man has told his hosts that the war was lost. In view of the coming end, he advised the family to flee while it still could. Why the Göbbelsian text? The ritualized content represents the self-protection of a helpless person prostrated by the Nazis' totalitarian terror. Those plotting against Hitler had a lot of outside constraints and inner inhibitions to overcome.

11. Pakistan's nominal government has just discovered that it is helpless against the totalitarian Taliban (02. 16.). The act of capitulation is called a „cease fire". Through it, the Islamists get as a reward all they have been fighting for. At the same time, the government's sovereignty is shrinking. In the deal it is giving up what modern government cannot surrender. Sharia will be introduced wherever the gunmen can enforce it.. This development brings us a step closer to the day when radical Islamists grab control of a „nuclear state". By common consent, we can ignore the peril. However, in doing so we must know that this does not avoid or reduce the threat.

@Ronduck and to All Jolly Goodfellows

Submitted by Capodistrias on Wed, 2009-02-25 16:53.

Hey Ronduck, ... does that answer your question about when will I admit defeat? That's right ..., NEVER;)

You responded:

Then you choose to ignore the reality of what your church uses its' influence for here in the States. You are willfully blind.

@Ronduck

Do you always post messages to the blind?

Choose to ignore reality?

No, I choose to ignore your definition of that reality because you are a rabid anti-Catholic bigot. I'm not saying you do not make valid comments about some of the Church's activities in this country. You do. But where you inevitably take it is an attack on the Church itself. Now run back to Takuan Seiyo, he needs you to fend off the demonic memories of his Catholic childhood. You and he have a Brave New World to create.

"Ho Seiyo, Ho Seiyo, in the Highest"

@TS, please 'Get off my Rock' and get back to your essay and an OPEN comments section. I respected your wishes. I left and I encourage others to bow to your wishes as well. House of Worship Rules should always be respected by members of opposing faiths.

After all, Gentlemen, 'Tolerant Xenophobes' is the focus of this thread;)

Give inch, take mile

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Wed, 2009-02-25 16:16.

"Tree-hanging is fabulous...".

 

I don't believe that other Judas would agree with you.

 

YOU invoked the divine with your use of the term, "Inch'allah", not I.

@atlanticist911

Submitted by kappert on Wed, 2009-02-25 18:01.

"YOU invoked the divine with your use of the term, "Inch'allah", not I."
As you may read, the 'Will of God' relates to the youth, the new generations, who evidently will shake up old values, for the good or the bad in the view of historical judgement.

@ kappert

Submitted by traveller on Wed, 2009-02-25 15:43.

That's where you put my books, I was looking everywhere.

Be careful where you hang!!!

orthographics (2)

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Wed, 2009-02-25 14:59.

Breaking News!

 

First World nut and former tree hugging taoist launches personal counter eco-Jihad, invoking the 'Will of Allah' in his one man quest to see a dramatic population  increase of Third World urchins at the expense of the marine variety.

 

Update: Same nut now wishes to co author a book with respected essayist Takuan Seiyo.

Working title: An Idiot's Guide to Zen-Zionism: the Mondo and the Cohens.

 

Further updates will NOT be posted.

@atlanticist911

Submitted by kappert on Wed, 2009-02-25 15:36.

Tree-hanging is fabulous, you don't need a gym. The overpopulation we witness is unfortunately no eco-jihad, nor is it the will of divinities - just Human behaviour which, as we know, jeopardises this world (in spite of Christian wishful thinking of nature domination!)
No need for stupid books, there are plenty of them in the shelves.

TS orthographics

Submitted by kappert on Wed, 2009-02-25 13:24.

TS: “grown up men of considerbale formal education” versus “juvenile fanatics”. I like that. Is BJ becoming the platform of retired WW2 Veterans, gloryfying the past of body accented wrestling in the Hindukush, while singin' an Icelandic saga? Europe is aging but fortunately there are regions on this planet with juvenile explosions, hic et nunc, as you might say. Insh'allah the vibrant force of the youth will wash away the tribal allures of the elderly. I hope TS realizes his threat and moves to another blog.

@Capo, good points

Submitted by Sagunto on Wed, 2009-02-25 03:25.

@Capo,

With you, I always disagree respectfully ;-)

- The way of the traveller (or does that sound too Islamic?) always seems to lead away from Islamic doctrine itself as far as possible. He wasn't even adressing differences within Islam, he spoke about different Muslims.
Sometimes, in the way the "fundamentalism"-argument is used, one can discern a typically "Western" way of looking at Islam, i.e. trough a prism of (residual) Christianity. In my opinion, the Dutch specialist on Islam, prof. Jansen, is right to point out that it is primarily the level of activism that distinguishes between Muslims, not "fundamentalism", or the also often heard and slightly misleading assertion that it is Koranic "literalism" that's causing some nasty problems.

- And your second point seems to be in agreement with an argument I never really pursued, though I agree with what you say. It is not nice to threaten people whom you disagree with. My point has been that for Islam to submit us, unbelievers, it isn't necessary at all to use the sword. That's reserved for a relatively small minority, especially since it has become clear after 9/11 that private enterprise has partly taken over the role of the Islamic state to wage war on unbelievers. It isn't even necessary to convert the rest of the world, that's not what Islam is about. It's about establishing the "Law of Allah" world-wide, by both open and stealth Jihad and creeping Islamization. As long as there are useful idiots galore, there's no need at all to become too assertive about Allah's design for the West, while still a minority.
So TS is always right on that part; with the ongoing revolt of our political elites against the West, there's almost no need for any foreign invader to hasten self-destruction. All the same, Islamic doctrine doesn't change by the obvious fact that many Muslims can be quite agreeable company. We have plenty of them in Amsterdam, from all over the world, representing the whole range of activism. Even Afghans to knock-out if that's your thing (wouldn't recommend it though).

 

As always, kind regs from Amsterdam,

Sag.

Kappert!!!

Submitted by Capodistrias on Wed, 2009-02-25 02:56.

What kind of exile island are you running here?

Don't you check papers anymore? If you let the guy who exiled me on the island, it's no longer an exile island.

You silly arse!

@Sagunto El Cid

Submitted by Capodistrias on Wed, 2009-02-25 02:29.

Kindest regards? Traveller warning for Amsterdam-Wear Full Body Armour ;)

Now let me gingerly examine a couple points you make, btw I do open carry.

"1)The question is whether or not it is a viable argument, to use befriended Muslims as "proof" that nothing is really wrong with Islamic doctrine, "

Sagunto,

Come on the Traveller's tale wasn't attempting to make such an extreme argument. He was making a perfectly valid argument that understanding the divisions within Islam; Islamic populations in various parts of the world, is a no-brainer to confront it or deal with it effectively.

Don't mock his experience too much, I have heard and read US intelligence officials who were responsible for that part of the world who grudgingly admit, to their credit, that the Traveller was right in his assessment of the conditions on the ground.

 

"2)and then there's the related issue of "Muslim countries" where Islam evidently "works" for the inhabitants, again, as some sort of exoneration of Islamic doctrine itself."

I'm not sure if this 'issue' was argued either, but I do agree with what I believe is the underlining point of your posts that Muslims have an obligation to defend Islam's tenets, doctrine rationally without threatening to kill everbody in the room when they feel or imagine an insult. The fact that most can't seem to do that today is a sad statement on the state of rational discourse in Islam today and God Bless Geert Wilders for shoving the fact down their dirty heathen throats. Is that over the top?

 

Right answer, besides the issue

Submitted by Sagunto on Tue, 2009-02-24 23:58.

Isn't that a bit of a strawman KO?

"Islam works after its fashion in all Moslem countries. Its fashion is a very poor one by Western lights, but it is its fashion. We don't have to turn everyone into Westerners."

Again, let's not talk about possible shades of cultural relativism, I'm sure it will pop-up when TS reaches the concluding states of his journey.

The main issue at hand is not whether everyone should be turned into a Westerner is it? The question is whether or not it is a viable argument, to use befriended Muslims as "proof" that nothing is really wrong with Islamic doctrine, and then there's the related issue of "Muslim countries" where Islam evidently "works" for the inhabitants, again, as some sort of exoneration of Islamic doctrine itself.

Kind regs from Amsterdam,
Sag.

@All

Submitted by Takuan Seiyo on Wed, 2009-02-25 00:44.

Gentlemen,

I believe it's improper and inconsiderate to hog George Handlery's space to discuss matters unrelated to Mr. Handlery's offering. Also, considering that most of the posters, as far as I can discern, are grown up men of considerbale formal education, I do not believe it's a proper utilization of any BJ forum to have long-drawn discussions with juvenile fanatics.
As to Islam @ Muslims, my Chapter 10 will be all about that, and I'd love to open the comments section there so that debate among grown men who think before they feel can take place. Alas, I have my biases too, and one of them is against people who are not only juvenile fanatics but also boors without social polish and good manners. I am adamant in not giving such people a platform attached to anything I write, and refuse to allow that such attached space be wasted on debates with them. Since they are determined to butt in anyway, I may have to keep the comments section closed and will try to redirect to you to another blog that has a filtering facility.

Correction

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2009-02-24 23:36.

Apologies to my fellow BJ readers. Mr Seiyo's response read as follows.

 

[Quote] If you repeat the request without the snarky address line, I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER.

 

[Emphasis added by "some guy"].

Logical conversation, Lonely Planet-style (2)

Submitted by Sagunto on Tue, 2009-02-24 23:29.

So this is how some of the Islam=Peace logic "works" for seasoned globetrotters:

"There's nothing wrong with Islam! And besides, there's also some blood spilt in the Bible!; Ok, and should there be anything wrong with Islam, it must be America's fault!; So nothing's wrong with Islam, the nice Muslims I've met have told me so themselves! So Islam is a religion of Peace! Anyone who disagrees has obviously never nocked-out an Afghan!; is therefore incapable of conducting a mature debate and either a gung-ho "Duke Nuke'm" Islamophobe or a scroogy Rumsfeldian neocon. Besides, if you're not blacklisted by US-intelligence then you better shut up and listen."

Criticize the doctrine and you get vilified Muslim-friends thrown at ya (happens to Wilders all the time, hence his sharp disctintion between a doctrine and its prisoners). Say anything about Allah's direct instructions to submit and/or kill unbelievers, and some bloody passage in the Bible is paraded to square the fundamental difference. And so on, und so weiter.
It's all textbook Islam-apologetics served cold on a rusty plate. Same old story, but "bona fide" this time, because it has aged since the sixties. Well, "logic go to hell" indeed, when nothing is allowed to beat the first-hand personal experience of knockin' down Afghans.

 

Kind regs from Amsterdam,

Sag.

Answers? (2)

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2009-02-24 23:28.

RE: Where is the mythical land where Islam works?

 

I never did get any answers .

 

No, you didn't, but you 'cleverly' failed to explain the reason WHY no answer was forthcoming, did you not?

 

see: node/305#comments-30229

 

You had the opportunity and YOU blew it.

 

 

 

RE: One guy suggested the Jihad-stamped occupied zone of Northern Cyprus. (Perhaps it was his idea of a joke.)

 

 

No joke.

 

1 The Cyprus problem has precisely NO-thing to do with Jihad.

 

2 See: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Road-Bellapais-Monographs/dp/0880330007

  NB  Even "Hellenic Books", to their everlasting credit, stock the book in question.

 

See: http://www.hellenic-books.com/detail.asp?ID=228

 

PS

3  We are supposed to be two nations divided by a common language. If this is so, then it clearly begs the question, which part of "Goodbye" don't you understand?

 

 

Answers

Submitted by KO on Tue, 2009-02-24 23:40.

Akira: Are you saying you don't see how your comments could be construed as rude? They are blazingly, intolerably rude, though the ones in the excerpt below are not even the rudest in which you have indulged. Your little parody of Mr. Seiyo is also far beyond the pale, and not even funny, so completely does it miss the mark even of satire.

Rather than rehash the controversy over your recent bad manners, I would like to just skip to substance and address your unanswered questions. A Moslem country is a former Christian, Zoroastrian, Hindu, or Buddhist country that Moslems conquered and forced to convert, or encouraged to convert by oppression of non-Moslems.

Islam works after its fashion in all Moslem countries. Its fashion is a very poor one by Western lights, but it is its fashion. We don't have to turn everyone into Westerners. Auster's separationism is the best formula yet for dealing with Islam: a rigorous quarantine.

Dante served the so-called Prophet well.

@ Akira

Submitted by traveller on Tue, 2009-02-24 22:28.

You are right, don't let yourself be bothered too much by logic, it's overrated anyway.

@ traveller

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2009-02-24 20:53.

You owe neither myself nor any other BJ'er any apology here. You've walked the walk so you are perfectly entitled to talk the talk. 'Prey' continue as you see fit.

@ George Handlery

Submitted by traveller on Tue, 2009-02-24 21:43.

The installation of sharia in Swat is meaningless. It is only anti-US propaganda.
Swat was under the special NWFP(North West Fronteer Province) system, agreed by Mohd Ali Jinnah in return for the Pashtun militias war against the Indian army in Kashmir when Pakistan became independent but had no real regular army yet. Jinnah gave NWFP an extra-national position which, amongst other things, gave them a "jirga" justice system. The "jirga" system is nothing else than a tribal chief justice whereby the tribal elders speak justice like they did since hundreds of years and based on the Koran. The fact that they call it sharia today as insult to the US presence is purely annoying but doesn't change anything for the poor people who have to suffer it since hundreds of years.

I was present at several of those jirga tribunals and the tribal chief is the real boss over his people. Today the taliban will be breathing in his neck to be "more islamic". Like always in that area the justice will boil down to money, nothing really new.

@ Capo'

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2009-02-24 19:12.

Who among us, today, remembers the details of the 'Great Mexican Guacamole Scandal' of 1908? Or the gruesome 'Assassination of the Grand Mufti of Morbihan' in 1392? Precisely, and you know why? Because, just like the story behind the story behind the origin of this thread, they too are fabrications of Walter Mitty-like proportion. Truly Thurberesque. Indeed, the whole affair is in danger of making some of Kappert's recent utterances appear sane by comparison.  Enough already!

@ Atlanticist & Capo

Submitted by traveller on Tue, 2009-02-24 20:26.

Sorry for getting carried away.
But this topic has been twisted and turned so many times by all kinds of idiots that normal people who are not directly involved start thinking that every muslim is a spawn of Satan himself. This makes all reasonable discussion impossible.

So I gave Mr. Akira a piece(well several pieces) of my mind.

@ ?

Submitted by Capodistrias on Tue, 2009-02-24 18:49.

He mentioned something about a kindergarten's snow-ball fight and my childish instincts just kicked in.

George probably has Takuan on the phone right now: "Get your brats out of here!"

Come on TS open up your comments section, if Akira doesn't behave himself, we'll show him what NULL NUTS on Kappert Isle really means and then the Turks will be the only ones to have any use for him.

?

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2009-02-24 18:29.

What did poor George Handlery do to deserve all this?

@Capo: What would Brian Boitano do?

Submitted by Sagunto on Tue, 2009-02-24 16:18.

I know you just passed on traveller's "question", but the obvious answer might be to take a few hints from history, i.e.

from Pope Innocent XI (I know, it's Wiki, but hey):

"It was due to Innocent XI's earnest and incessant exhortations that the German Estates and King John III of Poland (1674–96) in 1683 hastened to the relief of Vienna which was being besieged by the Turks. After the siege was raised, Innocent XI again spared no efforts to induce the Christian princes to lend a helping hand for the expulsion of the Turks from Hungary. He contributed millions of scudi to the Turkish war fund in Austria and Hungary and had the satisfaction of surviving the capture of Belgrade, September 6, 1688."

And Marc d'Aviano:

"Marco d'Aviano was also appointed by Pope Innocent XI as Apostolic Nuncio and Papal Legate. An impassioned preacher, Marco d'Aviano played an important role in maintaining unity among the 'Holy League' armies of Austria, Poland, Venice, and the Papal States under the leadership of the Polish king Jan III Sobieski. In the decisive Battle of Vienna (1683), the 'Holy League' armies succeeded in repulsing the invading Ottoman Turks. [..]

In 2003, he was beatified by Pope John Paul II."
 

But I also value your stare-em-down approach ;-)

Kind regs from Amsterdam,

Sag. 

@ Akira

Submitted by traveller on Tue, 2009-02-24 17:04.

The US army is now sent to Afghanistan thanks to the morons who financed the fundamentalists, and that was the same US of A.

@ Akira

Submitted by traveller on Tue, 2009-02-24 17:07.

I am in communion with Jim Carter?
He is not a Christian, he is a baptist?

Man, you are weird.

@ Akira

Submitted by traveller on Tue, 2009-02-24 17:00.

I have such a slavish attitude towards Islam that I fought the fundamentalists openly since 1980 while they were the friends of the US, and i got officially clobbered for it.

You really don't know f... all do you?

Cultured debate, Lonely Planet-style

Submitted by Sagunto on Tue, 2009-02-24 14:57.

@traveller,

 

I second your call for civilized debate (does that include uncomforting honesty too?), but your argumentum ad pugillatum:

"I knocked down an Afghan, you didn't, so you better sit down and listen, you idiot"

What kind of "debate culture" is that?

Sag.

@ Sagunto

Submitted by traveller on Tue, 2009-02-24 16:57.

That still means nukes as long as you speak about fighting and Sobieski, unless of course you are Rumsfeld and want to do it on the cheap.

Otherwise the real war to be fought is the war of culture. Spend the same billions, or much less, on free Christian schools for those countries to replace the madrassas. The parents will agree immediately.

There was no fundamentalism in Pakistan until stupid Bill Casey started financing the Arab fundamentalists.
Those fundamentalists were collecting the loot from the stupid US while sitting in their villa's in Peshawar, while the landlords and their villagers were fighting (remember Ahmed Shah Massood).

I wrote 53 type written pages for the US intelligence community about this, citing names and predicting exactly what would happen today. I was rewarded with a US blacklisting.

If Akira wants to talk seriously about this kind of real things, we can proceed. Otherwise I will attack Akira relentlessly about his moronic remarks.

Who Saved the Traveller?

Submitted by Capodistrias on Tue, 2009-02-24 14:31.

Akira,

Well? I assume you would react the same as I do to such a question: Of course, God did.

Can God work thru followers of a 'Satanic' religion holding kalashnikovs?

You bet ya. In fact, I have known Muslims more 'Catholic' than many Catholics I know.

Why fear Islam? Did the Pope fear Islam when he spoke at Regensburg and travelled to Turkey? He challenged it, but he showed no fear whatsoever.

I can understand your determination to stand up to and fight the whack jobs in the streets and those driving around in cars loaded with explosives, but doesn't the Faith we hold require us to wield Reason just not a fist when battling for the Faith?

Traveller's challenge: "What exactly is your solution? Nuke 'em?" raises a quandrary for those who find nothing but Satan in Islam and its followers. After all, how does one follow the tenets of one's own Faith to go forth to all nations when one's working assumption is that some nations are beyond the Word? Wouldn't that be a herectical position to maintain?

Accept that 'vocal' practicing Catholics are asked to be silent in TS comments section, sometimes a "silent" witness is as powerful as a noisy one. In short, stare 'em down.

Hey Ronduck, you anti-Catholic bigot, does that answer your question about when will I admit defeat? That's right duckface, NEVER;)

@Capodistrias

Submitted by Ronduck on Tue, 2009-02-24 19:17.

Hey Ronduck, you anti-Catholic bigot, does that answer your question about when will I admit defeat? That's right duckface, NEVER;)

Then you choose to ignore the reality of what your church uses its' influence for here in the States. You are willfully blind.

Gentlemen!

Submitted by KO on Tue, 2009-02-24 20:41.

What can anyone possibly gain by bringing the culture of the bar-room brawl to the normally respectful and intelligent pages of the Brussels Journal? (I leave aside the perennial Kappert-baiting, a sport whose virtues are best known to its practitioners.) These explosions of invective emanating from Mr. Akira and provoking responses in kind threaten to spoil the Brussels Journal for its important purposes. Isn't that why we have LGF? Where ad hominem attacks of the vilest kind are coin of the realm?

Why Mr. Akira, a well-informed and energetic blogger, disputant, and perhaps (someday) even worthy of being called a Crusader, would stoop to ad hominem attacks, even obscene ones, in conversing with an accomplished author who has been extremely generous with his time in writing for this website, is a complete mystery. It is unlikely he is a CAIR provocateur, though his conduct would make more sense if he were. But it is certainly not "conservative" to come on to a website maintained at the expense and through the efforts of others, completely ignore the decorum that prevails there (that prevails there because his predecessors have established it), and change the character of the place beyond recognition. There is absolutely nothing preventing someone like Mr. Akira from assimilating to the prevailing culture and showing a decent respect for the level of manners that Mr. Seiyo, for example, asked to be observed on the pages devoted to his efforts. Instead, by completely flying off the handle, he caused the comments to be shut down.

As a recent arrival myself, I am dumbfounded. Why choose to be a vandal when one can be a contributor? Who is better equipped than Mr. Akira to contribute meaningfully to these discussions? What is so difficult about keeping one's weapons hidden and pouring one's passion into commentary on the issues? It takes only a small rhetorical effort. Mr. Akira has gifts and a calling, but it is not his gifts or his calling that drag him into these encounters.

Sometimes people who complain about rudeness on a website are answered with the retort, "Don't you know this is the blogosphere?" That is a pitifully revealing response. The blogosphere need only be as base as its denizens choose to make it. Debate at the Brussels Journal can be pretty free-wheeling without veering into insult contests. I look forward to a restoration after this little saturnalia.

It's a Kappa, Kappa World!

Submitted by Capodistrias on Tue, 2009-02-24 05:29.

Akira,

Don't mess with the 'Red Squirrel!' A humourless site is a dead site. Better Red than Dead ;) Kiddin,kiddin remember on the Kappert Isle everything is NUTS. Or NULL? NULL NUTS?

'He no kappa sa' 

(trans. "It's nothing." lit.,"It's just a river monster passing wind." -Jack Seward's 'Outrageous Japanese'

Which I think translates on Kappert Isle as :

"He no kappert sa" but I might be wrong, me new,  me no speak Kappert sa.

What led to this (2)

Submitted by Atlanticist911 on Tue, 2009-02-24 01:36.

Re: "Bob the Turk".

 

Trying to inject a little lighthearted humo(u)r into the proceedings in an effort to diffuse a 'sticky' situation YOU initiated appears to have failed. Ah, well, at least I tried. Your contributions to the BJ will be an immeasurable loss to everyone concerned. Sorry, there I go again with the lighthearted humo(u)r. Goodbye.

@ Akira

Submitted by traveller on Tue, 2009-02-24 12:56.

You have the debate culture of a Neanderthal, you moron.
Did you ever hear or see an educated muslim lambast an idotic uneducated muslim for his 7th centuries idiocies?
Did you ever stand in front of a crowd of idiots while educated muslims protected you with kalashnikovs?
Did you ever knock out an Afghan "Mujahedeen" in front of his leader?

You didn't you idiot, I did it and lived it.

What exactly is your solution? Nuke them?

Who financed the Taliban and Bin Ladin? The very Christian US and Bill Casey.
Who demolished the Shah and his secular program in favor of the ayatollahs? The very Christian f.....g Jim Carter.

Debate the things you know and don't interfere in things you don't know the first word about.
You want some very bloody quotes from the Old Testament?

I believe in the teachings of Christ and find them marvelous, killing 1 billion people was not His solution.

@ Akira

Submitted by traveller on Tue, 2009-02-24 13:01.

I hope Takuan withdraws his request to TBJ to close the comments on his thread because I am not finished with you, you moron, I want to go to the bottom of this.
I want also a grown up discussion with Takuan, which is not possible under the present circumstances.
I have really no time to spare right now but I will let my sleep to tackle you.

Correcting the ....

Submitted by marcfrans on Mon, 2009-02-23 23:23.

It is usually the kapitein who needs correcting when it comes to articles by Mr Handlery. But this time it is Armor.

1) If "one of us" commits a crime, he needs to be punished.  Indeed, that would be the proper response.  For "we" are partially responsible for our own society and all of its members.  So, the statement "We do not have to expel him" does not make any sense.  One cannot, as Armor does, claim that a society has the right to self-determination (and keep 'them' out) and simultaneously imply or allow for the possibility of expelling "one of us".  If we were to expel "one of us", we would be imposing him on others.

Also, the distinction between "us" and criminals is of the utmost importance.  All criminals need to be punished, irrespective of whether they are indigenous people, naturalised citizens or genuine 'foreigners'; so, that includes those who transgress immigration laws, or any laws. 

3)  Political Correctness may be "imposed" by a minority, but it is clearly tolerated by a majority which often partakes heartily in it.  There is no point in hiding that 'truth' by solely blaming that "minority".

7) No, Obama's stimulus plan is not "proof of his incompetence and stupidity".  GIVEN that he wants to bring about "change" in society, specifically in the sense of redistributing more wealth and increasing the size and impact of government, his plan may well achieve doing that.  Many of his most ardent supporters openly state that they want the USA to become more like Western Europe.  It would be more accurate to say that Obama's election is proof of the incompetence and stupidity of a majority of the electorate at a particular moment in time, but not incompetence and stupidity of Obama.

 8) Again, Mr Handlery is right. The PRIMARY responsibility for the election of Obama rests with a majority of the voters.  It does not rest with Obama, nor with "string pullers" (whether real or mythical). There is nothing to be gained by putting one's head in the sand and refusing to put the 'blame' squarely and properly where it belongs.      

Points 1,3,7,8

Submitted by Armor on Mon, 2009-02-23 17:06.

"1. In fact, the SVP is not at all against „foreigners". What it is against is, besides big government, criminality. This position is held resolutely, regardless of whether culprits are indigenous or foreign."

The important thing is to keep a distinction between us and foreigners, not between us and criminals. If one of us commits a crime, he should pay a fine, or be sent to prison if it is a serious crime, but we do not have to expel him. If a Chinese has never committed any crime and is unlikely to commit any in the future, he should still remain in China. We don't need him in Europe (except as a tourist, if he would like to visit the place).
Saying so doesn't make me a xenophobe, unless xenophobia is redefined as an objection to population replacement. What is happening now, even in Switzerland, is a population replacement. We should oppose it, and try to reverse the damage that has already been done.

"3. Political correctness demands that we suspend, ignore and act against common sense, morality and the organically evolved norms of our society."

But political correctness is only imposed upon us by a small minority in control of our media and institutions.

"7. the state's ability to „overcome" is proving to be limited. Bad reactions and mistaken policies might be the result. Accordingly, today's credits will mute to become tomorrow's debt expressed by higher taxes."

I think Obama's stimulus plan is proof of his incompetence and stupidity. The fact that it is possible to enforce that kind of crazy policy shows that the American media and political system have become a joke. In fact, the immigration policy had already made that clear.

"8. not the ex candidate deserves the blame for the insinuations he used to be elected. It is the voter that did not know any better who is responsible."

The string pullers deserve the blame: media, media owners, main financial contributors to the political parties, ...