Sarkozy on Religion. Whose Cause Does He Want to Advance?
From the desk of Tiberge on Tue, 2008-01-08 10:15
One of the few times Nicolas Sarkozy really spoke like a French patriot was when he visited Rome last December, met the Pope, and was made honorary canon of Saint John Lateran. The speech he delivered there was an anomaly for Sarkozy, who customarily stresses intermingling of peoples, integration, and his pet project: the Islam of France.
Sarkozy told the Pope:
It is in the interests of the Republic that there exist also a moral reflection inspired by religious convictions. First because secular morality ["morale laïque"] always runs the risk of wearing itself out or changing into fanaticism when it isn't backed up by hope that aspires to the infinite. And then because morality stripped of any ties to transcendence is more exposed to historic contingencies and eventually to facileness.
The man who wrote the Rome speech, Henri Guaino has this to say to those angered or troubled by the Christian message that permeated this very uncharacteristic address:
"What is this world in which you can no longer say the truth, no longer look history squarely in the face? If you are French, and if you recognize yourself in France, France has Christian roots and that has nothing to do with "laïcité" [the 1905 French law separating Church and State]. The history of France, the culture of France, French civilization, like European civilization itself, all have Christian roots. [...] It is as if you were blocking out eight centuries of French monarchy. It isn't being a monarchist to say that France was made by the Capetians."
E-deo, the website that posted the above quote, adds this:
Very true. But it has been so pounded into people that France began in 1789, that it's good to hear.
Browsing through the French websites I've seen numerous comments by bloggers and readers who are shocked, angered, worried, and sometimes enraged by the Rome speech, and its repercussions, the main one being that the issue of "laïcité" is once again out in the open to be debated. These people are all either leftists, or so allergic to religion that any mention of the word sends them into a tailspin.
One person so affected is Jean-Michel Quillardet, the grand master of the Grand Orient of France (GOF), considered to be the "first masonic lodge of France" with 50,000 members. The GOF recently expressed its concern in a communiqué, reproaching Nicolas Sarkozy for his "willingness to present religion as being a constituent element of political and citizen identity, an idea that could seriously impair the French republican example."
Quillardet was interviewed by the left-leaning daily Libération:
What do you find shocking about Nicolas Sarkozy's remarks?
This concept of "positive laïcité" that says that religions are to be considered as an advantage and that we must seek a dialogue with them and thus open a troubling breach in the secular republican pact. It's the first time that a French president has advocated this new view of the relationship between the State and religion.
In a society as materialistic as ours, don't people have a need for meaning that has to be taken into account?
The quest for meaning does not necessarily involve religion. It shocks me when Nicolas Sarkozy says that "laic morality always runs the risk of wearing itself out or of changing into fanaticism when it is not associated with an aspiration that satisfies the aspiration for the infinite." Behind those words, there is a very American ideology.
American??? The quest for meaning, for the infinite is the essence of Christianity and other religions as well, but it is not specifically American. It's just that America has not lost the last shred of belief in a higher being, while Quillardet clearly has.
The positions of Sarkozy are well-known, he had expressed them in his book The Republic, Religions and Hope (published in 2004)...
During the presidential campaign, Nicolas Sarkozy distanced himself more from talk about modifying the 1905 law on separation of Church and State and from the Machelon Report. But now, we have the feeling that something is in the works.
The Machelon Report, commissioned by Interior Minister Sarkozy, recommended modifying the 1905 law to accommodate the demands of the Muslims of France for more mosques. This is indeed shocking, and the Grand Orient is right to be concerned. But their concern is more over Christianity than Islam, the primary beneficiary of Machelon, as we'll see:
What makes you think so?
Michèle Alliot-Marie [the French Minister of the Interior] met with us on December 3. She told us that in the Machelon Report, there are "several interesting ideas." She is wondering if it might be possible to turn religious associations, which cannot receive a government subsidy, into cultural associations, which can. Jean-Pierre Raffarin also stated in an interview with Le Figaro that "the 1905 law will have to be completed." We have requested a meeting with the president. We'll see if he agrees to see us.
You are opposed to any modification in the 1905 law, but then, how can we help the Muslims catch up with their long-standing need for houses of worship?
The first two articles: "The State neither recognizes nor subsidizes any religion" and "The exercise of religion is free", are not subject to modification. But we are not hostile to long-term leases, nor to the creation of the Foundation for Charitable Works for Islam.
He contradicts his originally premise according to which there must be total separation of Church and State, when he approves of long-term leases and Charitable Foundations that receive money from foreign countries to build mosques in France. While it may be difficult to prove intent, these two devices are clever tricks of the French government to get around the 1905 law, and to allow money to be funneled into the country for the building of mosques that may one-day become the property of the French State, something that is unconstitutional.
In the end, the only thing that shocked Jean-Michel Quillardet was the sight of the French president with the Pope. He certainly wasn't shocked by the sight of the president attending the dinner at the end of the Ramadan fast with Dalil Boubakeur, rector of the Paris mosque.
The article from Libération closes:
Apart from the Grand Orient of France, few groups rebelled against the president's remarks...
François Bayrou [who was defeated in the first round of the presidential election last May] and François Hollande [chairman of the French Socialist Party] both protested, the former stating that the concept of positive laïcité threatens the conception of republican "laïcité" and favors a return to religion as the "opiate of the people."
Again, Bayrou and Hollande are talking about Christianity. Neither man has shown any sign of opposition to Islam.
My best guess is that Nicolas Sarkozy wants to reopen the debate on religion and "laïcité", not to help the Catholics of France, but only to smooth the way for the further Islamization. If such a debate really materializes it will be interesting to see if the Catholics can turn it somehow to their advantage.
Sarkozy is a weasel
Submitted by onecent on Wed, 2008-01-09 04:19.
Sarkozy is an weasely opportunist like so many French statesmen before him. He just recently in a Russian paper defended Putin's re-election as a fair election. The French have lots of lessons yet to learn if they want to turn their economy around, re-gain international respect and halt their impending dhimmitude.
a general remark
Submitted by Slawomir Budziak on Tue, 2008-01-08 16:37.
This statement from president Sarkosy reminds me of one of the most famous quotes of Fyodor Dostoevsky which says that "If there is no God, everything is permitted".
I myself being both conservatively inclined and religiously indifferent have always dissented strongly with that kind of view upon the allegedly intimate connection between transcendental beings and the way of acting of humans.
As a matter of fact I find it utterly ridiculous. Literally no conceivable argumentation and no observation of the behavior of the members of both religious and secular societies can lead anyone to really believe that morality og ethics can change for the better or deteriorate just because we either nourish any "hope that aspires to the infinite" or do not do so. These are after all autotelic values we are talking about.
Whereas questioning of the role that the Christian faith has played in the forming of the European identity an entirely different case and of course it is highly unwise as well as it is a widespread practice.
@Slawomir Budziak
Submitted by atheling on Tue, 2008-01-08 18:43.
"Literally no conceivable argumentation and no observation of the behavior of the members of both religious and secular societies can lead anyone to really believe that morality og ethics can change for the better or deteriorate just because we either nourish any "hope that aspires to the infinite" or do not do so."
Morality and ethics do not "change for the better", people do. You must have a very blinkered view of history and human nature.
If there is no life after death, if there is only a hole in the ground waiting for me or you, what is to stop us from doing whatever we want? What stops us from gratifying every urge and desire?
on reward or rather unnecessity of it
Submitted by Slawomir Budziak on Tue, 2008-01-08 19:46.
Is that to say that what you need a a constant threat or promise of reward after death which force you to follow some set of ethical rules? I my self, and for that matter a great deal of people I have met in the course of my life, have always considered good deeds and the proper behaviour to be the right thing to choose without there being any need to motivate them any further. If I did what I usually do just to obtain some kind of reward I would be compelled to admit that what I represent is not morality but a sort of mercantile approach to ethical questions. If I did it for fear of punishments it would be cowardice. What the others do is their own concern. At the same time I simply have to react on this type statements which can not be described otherwise as a total contradiction of my ethical views and which pretend have some universal validity. It is kind of challenging and I basically reply.
I am aware of the fact that not everyone follows that kind of principles but am I wrong when I expect some sort of ethical discipline from those who surround me? Is that to say that I am "blinkered"? I will be glad to end up in that proverbial hole in the ground if I to the very last minute know I have done the right choices in my life.
@Slawomir Budziak
Submitted by atheling on Tue, 2008-01-08 20:05.
"I my self, and for that matter a great deal of people I have met in the course of my life, have always considered good deeds and the proper behaviour to be the right thing to choose without there being any need to motivate them any further."
Yes, but not all people operate that way, particularly children. If you study the Bible, you would see the development of Mosaic Law to Christ's revelation - the former is obedience out of fear, the latter is obedience out of love.
"am I wrong when I expect some sort of ethical discipline from those who surround me? Is that to say that I am "blinkered"? I will be glad to end up in that proverbial hole in the ground if I to the very last minute know I have done the right choices in my life."
You live on the moral interest of your ancestors, which is practically bankrupt now. Younger generations do not have that luxury, as evidenced by Armor's recent comment on honesty.
human morals
Submitted by Armor on Tue, 2008-01-08 18:15.
Slawomir Budziak: "just because we either nourish any "hope that aspires to the infinite"
Religion, culture, ideology all affect our behavior, but our behavior depends first of all on instinct and biology. Not all human groups are the same in this respect. For example, women are less violent. They are also more honest.
@Armor
Submitted by atheling on Tue, 2008-01-08 18:29.
Interesting test. It would have been more interesting if they had listed the "value system", i.e. Christian, atheist, Buddhist, etc... of the subjects as well.
Opiate comment is outdated.
Submitted by siegetower on Tue, 2008-01-08 15:04.
François Bayrou [who was defeated in the first round of the presidential election last May] and François Hollande [chairman of the French Socialist Party] both protested, the former stating that the concept of positive laïcité threatens the conception of republican "laïcité" and favors a return to religion as the "opiate of the people."
Excuse me but how many opiates of the people are there today? Not least of all, actual opiates amongst the people!
Surely such out of date comments can be disregarded.
Such anti-Christian thinking is far too common and dangerous in its' potential to encourage people to stay from the Light and the truth.
__________
Defend Christendom. Defend Jewry. Oppose socialism in Europe.
Because it will be the true faith to stop them
Submitted by Marvin Brenik on Tue, 2008-01-08 12:03.
Browsing through the French websites I've seen numerous comments by bloggers and readers who are shocked, angered, worried, and sometimes enraged by the Rome speech, and its repercussions, the main one being that the issue of laïcité is once again out in the open to be debated. These people are all either leftists, or so allergic to religion that any mention of the word sends them into a tailspin.
It is easier to understand Shark(ozy)'s speech, if we look at his entire policy, which has proven to be designed to divide and conquer by constantly fueling racist, religious and ethnic hatred. It is blatantly obvious that the speech was fake as well (as everything he has ever said in public) and served as a provocation and thematical setting for the subsequent fake adverse reactions to religions. These are all parts of the same grand game played in different roles by atheist-emperors with the common goal to campaign against true faith and all religions, because true faith within all religions would bring solidarity, tolerance, peace, freedom and democracy and this is exactly what the EU leaders want to avoid.