The Terminal Sickness of EUtopia

From the desk of The Brussels Journal on Thu, 2007-09-27 15:12

A quote from Bruce Thornton at victorhanson.com, 26 September 2007

Across Europe the left has found in Islam a convenient ally, since both hate the core political goods of the West, liberal democracy and free-market economies, and both hate Christianity – the same mayor of Brussels who silenced European Christians greeted the death of Pope John Paul II with a call for champagne. Al Qaeda understands this Western self-hatred, which is why bin Laden speaks to us about economic oppression, colonialism, even environmentalism, issues about which he cares nothing but which create common cause with the anti-Western left.

Perhaps nothing better shows the lunatic folly of these attitudes than the experience of a German Christian in the Place de Luxembourg on 9/11 (See Brussels Journal). He was arrested after he took out a wooden cross and started praying to himself. There you have the terminal sickness of EUtopia: publicly exercising your right of free speech and displaying the symbol of the faith that created Europe in the first place will get you arrested, even as the E.U. elite bend over backwards to profess their admiration for and to indulge the intolerant, imperialistic faith that for fourteen centuries their ancestors fought and defeated. That’s how EUtopia will end: with the terrorist’s bang followed by the appeaser’s whimper.

Re: Henrik and Norman

Submitted by Amsterdamsky on Thu, 2007-09-27 22:28.

Henrik:  Galileo seems to have come very close to inventing the first steam engine.  This was probably thwarted by the Catholic Church.

 

Norman:  I am no communist, more like Ayn Rand capiltalist.  I agree with you there. I personally think we need to act now to avoid being enslaved by the new emerging nanny world.  "Amsterdamsky" is the first thing Tommy Chong said on arriving in Amsterdam in the movie "Still Smokin"  I think it was something like Hey, man, Amsterdamsky...."

@Amsterdamsky

Submitted by atheling on Thu, 2007-09-27 23:37.

"Galileo seems to have come very close to inventing the first steam engine. This was probably thwarted by the Catholic Church."

No substantiation, no links, no support for more of your bigoted, ignorant remarks.

You really amaze me. You are like the Eveready bunny, continuously banging that drum, no matter how much you get your a** kicked, and you really got it good on this thread.

Do you read?

Can't read, can't think

Submitted by marcfrans on Thu, 2007-09-27 16:32.

@ Amsterdamsky

The quote from Thornton states that the "core political goods" of the west are "liberal democracy and free market economies".   You 'turn' that into "...the pope a core political good...".   That your thinking is very shallow has been demonstrated on numerous occasions, but that you cannot read has not.   Yet, the conclusion is unavoidable: either you cannot read, or you are dishonest.  Take your pick.

Further, for your information, the pope is not the same thing as christianity, and the industrial revolution was preceded by an agricultural revolution and a 'commercial' revolution (stock companies, stock market etc...).  The latter was centered in the great city 'states' of northern Italy and of the 'low countries' (particularly, the southern Nether-lands, i.e. Flanders).  

@ HenrikRClausen

Submitted by Norman Conquest 304 on Thu, 2007-09-27 16:31.

Banco! Thank you for your excellent comment. Of course, Lombardy's bankers (around XIVth century) and their famous double-entry bookkeeping system still used today!

As regards Pope JPII, his "don't be afraid" was the trigger.   

How many wrongs in on paragraph?

Submitted by HenrikRClausen on Thu, 2007-09-27 16:14.

Amsterdamsky, you may not quite appreciate how much Pope John Paul II did to strengthen the church in East Europe, particular Poland, to discredit the communist system, and to enable the peaceful end to the Cold War. Having (been - *sigh*) married Polish and traveled there repeatedly, I know something about what role the church played. And still does, 'cause their politicians don't seem to be doing too well...

But that's small potatoes. The Galileo debacle is interesting, in that his theories were actually accepted by the Catholic church, and his influental friends there, until Galileo himself went too far and demanded a reinterpretation of specific passages of the Bible due to his theories. The church politely requested him to restrain himself, as his theories were hardly proven yet. Only when he pressed on to interfere with the authority of the church did the well-known debacle take place. The Catholic church did respect science. Only when scientists challenged the church directly did it react.

Finally, regarding the Industrial Revolution... It *did* start in Italy, if you consider the international banking system and its related financial tools (in one term: 'Capitalism') the roots of it. And it did start with the protection and support of the Catholic church, the monasteries in particular, where much trade, financing and progress took place, as well as the philosophical principles of private property, abolishing slavery and more.

No need to blame the Catholic church for crimes it didn't commit. Thank you.

 

Suggested reading:

Rodney Stark: The Victory of Reason

Thomas E. Woods: How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization.

@ Amsterdamsky - Pope as a core political good of the West?

Submitted by Norman Conquest 304 on Thu, 2007-09-27 16:04.

Of course the Cartholic Church is guilty of everything. But what about your friend Garibaldi? What about the Italian Communist Party, especially after WWII? What about this stubborn, absurd (not to say idiotic), criminal, pseudo-rational, atheistic ideology politely called marxism-communism that claimed more than 100 million victims (without mentioning environmental and demographic collaterals) in less than 80 years of brain-washing, terror, lies, looting and blackmail? With its Communist Party, Italy did not need enemies. Your pseudo is "Amsterdamsky" and the Russian "-sky" apparently suits you very well. Or was it just humour? 

 

Pope as a core political good of the West?

Submitted by Amsterdamsky on Thu, 2007-09-27 15:19.

"since both hate the core political goods of the West, liberal democracy and free-market economies, and both hate Christianity – the same mayor of Brussels who silenced European Christians greeted the death of Pope John Paul II with a call for champagne."

I do not consider the Pope a core political good of the West although I guess he did pardon Galileo for heresy. I think the Industrial Revolution would have started in Italy if not for the very harmful intervention of the Catholic Church.