We live in the twenty-first century, I think we should know the least thing about tolerance. I don't see anything wrong in this health project, it's meant to improve the system through better research and better services. Maybe this way more people will have the chance to get an affordable health insurance. Do you see a better alternative?

I think there isn't a big conspiracy against Europe. But it is true that the media, governments, and EU institutions always act deceptively when forcing immigration on us.

By the way, when a help agency is created to help Arab countries with European money, it should be called a help agency, not a Mediterranean health partnership. I wish our governments would stop helping muslim countries. At most, we should refrain from bombing them. But we should not help them. We had better help Russia, black Africa, or India.

PV said: "What good reason could all the freely elected politicians, along with all the free-market driven journalists of Europe have, to set up a complot for the destruction of Europe?"

There isn't one big secret plot, but we do NOT have a free democratic system. The media and big political parties rarely allow opposition to the immigration ideology to be voiced, even though it is obvious that third-world immigration is destroying us, and most Europeans oppose it. Why is that destructive policy forced on us? How do you explain the policy of forcing Turkey into the EU? How could the EU be any more anti-democratic and more anti-European?

"against paranoia there is no reasoning possible"

There is no reasoning possible with immigration fanatics. They take no account of reality. I think they suffer from noiapara, which is paranoia in reverse.
Immigration opponents have tons of arguments. Noiaparacs haven't any good one, but they will support immigration to the bitter end (= end of Europe + civil war) because they are so cool!

"with his doom scenario of Eurabia he is inspiring common people to violence. (***) This tells a lot about the honesty of the “intellectuals” of the extreme right."

There is no call to violence here, on the contrary. If you want to avoid a violent future for Europe, the obvious thing to do is stop immigration and start repatriation. Open your eyes !

(However, violence is not the main reason why I oppose immigration. I think we should stop immigration out of respect for ourselves, our ancestors, and our children.)

I first thought I should argue against this nonsense. A complot theory in line with the protocols of Zion, inspiring fear and calling for violence against people makes my blood boil. There are plenty of arguments to be found, for sure:  How does improvement of the medical services on the other side of the Mediterranean, implement Eurabia? What good reason could all the freely elected politicians, along with all the free-market driven journalists of Europe have, to set up a complot for the destruction of Europe? Why can Fjordman write what he writes if he is divulging the biggest complot of the last 20 centuries, without being stopped? And so on, and so on. But then against paranoia there is no reasoning possible. After all it’s not Fjordman I’m worried about. He is a poor sick-minded man misled by a sick minded women “Bat Ye’or”. What is really worrisome is not Fjordman’s words. The silence of people like Paul Beliën , Luc Van Braeckel, Trevino or Marcfrans is the worrisome part. They know that with his dome scenario of Eurabia he is inspiring common people to violence. (***If average Europeans understood the implications of what is going on, there would be explosions of anger from tens of millions of people all over Europe and the entire European Union would immediately disintegrate and collapse. ***) I have however the distinct feeling that this violence and the collapse of the EU would suite them fine. This tells a lot about the honesty of the “intellectuals” of the extreme right.     

"European politicans and bureaucrats are not alone in forcing multiculturalism and political correctness on their electorates: this process is equally worrisome in every Western state...".

This is true.  It does not change my remark The EU (and certain member states, individually) are suppressing and eradicating opposition, opposition which is legal, reasonable and which is to be expected in societies deemed democratic.  In the US, as well, there is a predominance of certain (left-minded) interest groups who have hijacked the democratic process to obtain top-level power positions, but there are more opposition and safeguards which can perhaps prevent their further entrenchment.

The "freedom to decide what happens within their own bodies" is a sales point used for abortion, but excludes other considerations.  As a human being, all children, including unborn children, have a constitutional(and a God granted) right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and this right is being denied by us.  We have responsibilities to fellow human beings to allow them their freedom to live.  Those rights should not be denied without good and just reasons determined by just and due process of law.  The "right to control her own body" argument does not balance when it denies the superior rights of the women (and men) who are denied a right to their life. Our societies are disallowed the benefit of their existence, contributions and association.  An American physician, Dr. Joel Hylton, once stated,

"Who can deny that the fetus is alive and is a separate genetic entity? Its humanity also cannot be questioned scientifically. It is certainly of no other species."

Civilization owes it's protection to both the woman and the baby.  We must remember that preventing life for the convenience of individual feelings and social conveniences, no matter how framed, can lead to peril for all.  The eugenics backgrounds of the proponents of the original concepts which lead to current "womens" lib and abortion on demand is well known by any who are familiar with the issues. We should be more concerned about why our societies are accepting such arguments with so little consideration for sanctity and dignity of life.

Logicalman,what you say is very true,but the problem is that most of the people in the western world/ non muslims have their heads buried in the sand,I wish they wake up sooner than later,if later then it might be too late to save the western civilization as we know it.As you say there is definitely oil $ being pessed under the table to people who speak in defence of Islam/Muslims and defend muslims to any end, CAIR in U.S.A.and e.g,in Uk we have George Galloway,Ken Livingstone,mouth piece of Muslims.The Muslim Council of Britain.There is now an organization in Uk who are saying that 9/11 was all American conspiracy,9/11 has been pinned on Muslims,can you believe that?How can these people in the West be so stupid?I believe because they get their money from Arab countries to defend Muslims on their behalf,which Muslims are succeeding.Islam/Muslims can not co-exist with any other religion on this planet.If we do not fight back we are doomed for ever. 

FF: "The leaders of the EU...engage and promote a holocast for their own people and those of the world."

European politicans and bureaucrats are not alone in forcing multiculturalism and political correctness on their electorates: this process is equally worrisome in every Western state, save Japan and the newly industrialised economies of East Asia e.g. Taiwan, South Korean and Singapore. In the United States, neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have effectively dealt with the demographic crisis that has resulted from legal and illegal immigration of Latin Americans, nor the associate crises of crime, economic drain and the increasing political clout of foreign interests in Washington. Canada has even go so far as to declare itself a multicultural society, founded upon "peace, order and good government." However, I fail to see how these declarations are unique and make Canada anything more than a shape on a map - a self-declared colony, not a nation-state. Only in Australia does common sense prevail, however, the ambitions of overpopulated Southeast and South Asian states for access to the vast reaches of that continent imperil Australia's fragile demographics.

FF: "The unborn children who have had their lives taken without a good and just cause have few spokesmen and no legal representative."

Are you referring to the freedom to have an abortion? Why can one have freedom of speech but not the freedom to decide what happens within their own bodies? Again, this state of affairs is not limited to Western Europe.

FF: "The original proponents of abortion and forced sterilization had in mind a strengthening of man's genetics, but the effect as practiced is to weaken the stronger of their own civilizations."

Incorrect, the Sexual Revolution had little in common with eugenics.

FF: "It can be a very small step from killing a living being because of the date of delivery through the birth canal to imposing other standards to justify the same result."

I fail to see how, unless you are referring to euthanasia, which: (a) must be requested, and (b), must have the approval of a panel of doctors. The Pro-Life movement is not inherently more caring than the Pro-Choice movement or those in favor of legalising euthanasia, they merely argue for religious reasons which are labelled "moral."
 

FF: "Maybe they will be more trustworthy partners for those "paramilitary leaders" and terrorists.  I wonder why those "partners" would consider them to be."

Kapitien, you have pointed out the simple visions promoted by the leftist leadership in Europe.  They have succeeded in indoctrination of their own people using such simple grand visions and gradualism in the implemention of those propoganda models.  They have built in layers of separation from accountabilty or control by the people of the national states utilizing the power of those grand schemes.  That they have been successful in doing so makes them no less hipocrites.

The leaders of the EU denounce speech denying the holocast while they engage and promote a holocast for their own people and those of the world.  The unborn children who have had their lives taken without a good and just cause have few spokesmen and no legal representative.  The original proponents of abortion and forced sterilization had in mind a strengthening of man's genetics, but the effect as practiced is to weaken the stronger of their own civilizations.  It can be a very small step from killing a living being because of the date of delivery through the birth canal to imposing other standards to justify the same result.

Supression of freedoms, population indoctrination, practices adverse to sound economic liberties and rational practices, along with moral relativism for certain agendas and a knowing  appeasement policy appears to be the greatest strengths of the institution known as the EU.  Antagonism and duplicity in dealings with longstanding friends and natural allies and avoidance of the recognition of the inherent realities of terrorism complete those impressive credentials.

As you have stated, Kapitien:

"...negotiation, even with active and former military and paramilitary leaders is necessary if any sort of reconciliation is to occur.

Maybe they will be more trustworthy partners for those "paramilitary leaders" and terrorists.  I wonder why those "partners" would consider them to be.

Bat Ye'Or's bias and agenda are irrelevant with regards to those opinions and arguments of hers that you agree with, if of course you agree with them independently of her supporting arguments and premises. Agreement with a Neo-Fascist that immigration, multiculturalism and political correctness are problems does not indicate consensus on every other issue or justify someone labelling both people as Neo-Fascists.

You forget that before the creation of the State of Israel, the Israeli leadership was composed entirely of paramilitary leaders who used "terror tactics" in equal measure with the Palestinians. Yet these "terrorists" received Western support, especially after the Suez Crisis, particularly from the United States. There cannot be a double-standard for Palestinians and Israelis...

"The EU governing body is in a very pious manner attempting to block and prevent dicussion on holocast issues from WWII (but are actually using it as another tool to impose speech and thought limitations)."

Because various interests in the European socio-political establishment are promoting multiculturalism, with its corollaries of multinationality and multiracialism, and use political correctness to silence opposition. The diverse policies, schools of thought and programmes that comprise "multiculturalism" have equally diverse ends: preventing war, fostering civil society, removing all barriers save class, and furthering cultural and economic imperialism by Western states.

"At the same time, they indoctrinate their citizens in pro-terrorist and anti-Israel propoganda."

Because Israel seeks to be a homogenous nation-state, Arab Israelis and Aethiopian Jews aside. These aforementioned interests seek to fashion the world in the image of multiculturalism and liberal or social democracy (the latter term merely symbolic because Europeans did not choose multiculturalism, it was chosen for them and explained later).

"They provide covert (and at times not so covert) assistence to terrorists in Palestine, Lebanon and other venues, and invite them or their representatives into Europe with policies designed to make them partners with the EU, if not with the people of the formerly sovereign states of the EU."

After millennia of warfare, the European peoples are keenly aware that yesterday's terrorists are today's politicians and that today's enemies are tomorrow's friends. Short of murdering each and every Palestinian and their supporters and sympathisers worldwide, negotiation, even with active and former military and paramilitary leaders is necessary if any sort of reconciliation is to occur.

If you really want to know about hypocrisy, Amsterdamsky, just look around you.  The EU governing body is in a very pious manner attempting to block and prevent dicussion on holocast issues from WWII (but are actually using it as another tool to impose speech and thought limitations).  At the same time, they indoctrinate their citizens in pro-terrorist and anti-Israel propoganda.  They provide covert (and at times not so covert) assistence to terrorists in Palestine, Lebanon and other venues, and invite them or their representatives into Europe with policies designed to make them partners with the EU, if not with the people of the formerly sovereign states of the EU.  Open your eyes and your mind and this should be obvious.

Bat Ye'Or is a jewish bigot even if she manages to be right about some things.  Just one religion going after another in a quest for world domination and mind control.

I believe it's not just ignorance about wicked Islam, but also self-interest before society's interest that make people like Prodi behave their way.

Yes on the surface cooperation with Arabs sound good.  It's actually good for the people involved in it in the short term. I wouldn't be surprised there's a lot of money passed under the table from those sultans the likes of Prodi.  But in the long run, due to the inherent nature of Islam, which is a policy of robbery, rape and domination disguised as a religion and followed by brainless or brainwashed people, Eurabia would become a muslim continent.

Europeans should know about what is going on with their greedy leaders and ask themselves: "would my country be better of following the footstep of Mohammed or that of Jesus?"

The Byzantine emperor and the pope were telling facts.  People just seem not to heed their messages, to their future destruction.  In the meantime, their daughters get raped and live in fear.  How stupid can they be?